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How Gamers Beat NFTs (Bloomberg)

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  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,372
    bcbully said:
    but skins, digital collectables with utility are fine right?

    No.  They're merely tolerated due to perceived inevitability and prevalence.

    As the article notes, the migration towards microtransactions led to a smaller userbase for AB, but it enabled them to fleece those users harder.

    This is, in fact, the intent of microtransactions in general: you don't matter unless you're willing to spend significantly more.  It perverts design and success goals.  It preys on those who suffer from gambling addictions in many cases.

    None of that is going away with NFTs.  No one, including yourself or weasel, has been able to make a compelling case that NFTs will do anything but exacerbate and compound those issues.  Consequently, video gamers have mostly made it clear they don't want that evolution.
    kitaradMendelScotChampieCogohiAndemnon
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,432
    edited October 2022
    In general, I don't like any monetization scheme. My preference is to buy the game, and pay a sub for all content. Stores are ok if they don't sell any P2W items.

    In some cases, I can see paying a small sum to enable an alt to skip finding all the stuff yet again, like in ESO.

    Microtransactions in a game means I don't play it. I don't want my gaming to have any real effect on my real life and my real money. That's why I play games. I play the stock market or the race track if I want to gamble.

    So NFT's are even worse in my opinion. The only purpose that I can see for an NFT is to "own" it and try to sell it. Exactly the kind of thing I *don't* want in gaming.
    TheDalaiBombaMendel

    ------------
    2023: 46 years on the Net.


  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    bcbully said:
    but skins, digital collectables with utility are fine right?

    No.  They're merely tolerated due to perceived inevitability and prevalence.

    As the article notes, the migration towards microtransactions led to a smaller userbase for AB, but it enabled them to fleece those users harder.

    This is, in fact, the intent of microtransactions in general: you don't matter unless you're willing to spend significantly more.  It perverts design and success goals.  It preys on those who suffer from gambling addictions in many cases.

    None of that is going away with NFTs.  No one, including yourself or weasel, has been able to make a compelling case that NFTs will do anything but exacerbate and compound those issues.  Consequently, video gamers have mostly made it clear they don't want that evolution.
    I think what you're looking for is something out of the realm of reality. 

    You want things to get better in relation to monetization. Be less predatory. Be... whatever you think would be "for the player". 

    As a player it makes sense. But the subscription only days are over. 

    NFTs don't make anything any worse. Not any more or less than poor design does in other games. 

    People point to rampant botting in some NFT games and all that. But what of games like Lost Ark that has millions of bots... probably the majority of their player base is made of up bots even after all the bans. 

    NFTs aren't exacerbating the issues. Poor design is. NFTs are just tokens attached to assets. Nothing more. The designs of how they are used are where you see the perceived problems, and not all games with NFTs experience those issues. 

    Gamers can say they don't want an evolution, but they didn't want cash shops and microtransactions and gacha. Oh well. If it's going to happen, gamers saying they don't want it won't mean a thing.
    bcbullyPhaserlight



  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,372
    edited October 2022
    That doesn't seem true with regards to NFTs, at least not at the moment.

    Which is the entire focus of the article.

    As far as monetization expectations, it is still reality.  God of War didn't bank on a cash shop.  Horizon: Zero Dawn doesn't.  Squad doesn't.  It works when there's a market to support the game experience itself.  If there isn't, well microtransactions of the predatory variety are effective at keeping the corpse walking.
    Andemnon
  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    bcbully said:
    but skins, digital collectables with utility are fine right?

    No.  They're merely tolerated due to perceived inevitability and prevalence.

    As the article notes, the migration towards microtransactions led to a smaller userbase for AB, but it enabled them to fleece those users harder.

    This is, in fact, the intent of microtransactions in general: you don't matter unless you're willing to spend significantly more.  It perverts design and success goals.  It preys on those who suffer from gambling addictions in many cases.

    None of that is going away with NFTs.  No one, including yourself or weasel, has been able to make a compelling case that NFTs will do anything but exacerbate and compound those issues.  Consequently, video gamers have mostly made it clear they don't want that evolution.
    I think what you're looking for is something out of the realm of reality. 

    You want things to get better in relation to monetization. Be less predatory. Be... whatever you think would be "for the player". 

    As a player it makes sense. But the subscription only days are over. 

    NFTs don't make anything any worse. Not any more or less than poor design does in other games. 

    People point to rampant botting in some NFT games and all that. But what of games like Lost Ark that has millions of bots... probably the majority of their player base is made of up bots even after all the bans. 

    NFTs aren't exacerbating the issues. Poor design is. NFTs are just tokens attached to assets. Nothing more. The designs of how they are used are where you see the perceived problems, and not all games with NFTs experience those issues. 

    Gamers can say they don't want an evolution, but they didn't want cash shops and microtransactions and gacha. Oh well. If it's going to happen, gamers saying they don't want it won't mean a thing.
    NFT's don't make things worse? At least if I buy a skin or an expansion, my only worry is to be sure there's enough money in the bank to pay for it. Once the transaction is over, it's done and forgotten about. 

    With NFT's, if I buy one I have to worry whether I can find a bigger sucker than myself to buy it from me before the market collapses a week later ( or sooner ). Or hope that some unnamed other game is going to let me bring it with me so it's not completely worthless when the current game I'm playing kicks the bucket. You've just made my relaxation into WORK and fuck that.
    bcbullyChampieCogohiAndemnon
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    bcbully said:
    but skins, digital collectables with utility are fine right?

    No.  They're merely tolerated due to perceived inevitability and prevalence.

    As the article notes, the migration towards microtransactions led to a smaller userbase for AB, but it enabled them to fleece those users harder.

    This is, in fact, the intent of microtransactions in general: you don't matter unless you're willing to spend significantly more.  It perverts design and success goals.  It preys on those who suffer from gambling addictions in many cases.

    None of that is going away with NFTs.  No one, including yourself or weasel, has been able to make a compelling case that NFTs will do anything but exacerbate and compound those issues.  Consequently, video gamers have mostly made it clear they don't want that evolution.
    I think what you're looking for is something out of the realm of reality. 

    You want things to get better in relation to monetization. Be less predatory. Be... whatever you think would be "for the player". 

    As a player it makes sense. But the subscription only days are over. 

    NFTs don't make anything any worse. Not any more or less than poor design does in other games. 

    People point to rampant botting in some NFT games and all that. But what of games like Lost Ark that has millions of bots... probably the majority of their player base is made of up bots even after all the bans. 

    NFTs aren't exacerbating the issues. Poor design is. NFTs are just tokens attached to assets. Nothing more. The designs of how they are used are where you see the perceived problems, and not all games with NFTs experience those issues. 

    Gamers can say they don't want an evolution, but they didn't want cash shops and microtransactions and gacha. Oh well. If it's going to happen, gamers saying they don't want it won't mean a thing.
    NFT's don't make things worse? At least if I buy a skin or an expansion, my only worry is to be sure there's enough money in the bank to pay for it. Once the transaction is over, it's done and forgotten about. 

    With NFT's, if I buy one I have to worry whether I can find a bigger sucker than myself to buy it from me before the market collapses a week later ( or sooner ). Or hope that some unnamed other game is going to let me bring it with me so it's not completely worthless when the current game I'm playing kicks the bucket. You've just made my relaxation into WORK and fuck that.
    Why?

    That doesn't make any sense. When I bought skins in Blankos.. I paid exactly what the market price was for it from the developers. I didn't worry about finding any "suckers" to sell it to... because I bought the skin or accessory because I liked it, not because I wanted to resell it to someone else. Every blanko I owned were designs I wanted.

    But I'll tell you one thing, if I decided I didn't want it anymore, I could resell it. Even if I didn't make what I paid for it (which is unlikely) getting anything back for a skin I no longer want to use is better than saying "the transaction is over" and moving on. Listing items is easy and doesn't require any external wallet or hoops to jump through. 

    In this case, it doesn't make sense why you would rail against NFTs. In your story you're talking about buying items you don't want to resell them, or you're worried about market collapse, neither of which have a bearing on in-game utility based assets. 

    You buy them because you want them. Buying them to sell them only works if people will pay your asking price. Sure you can list any assets at any time, but people don't buy assets they don't want outside of a relatively standardized asking price. 
    bcbully



  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    This desperate need to make NFT's blockchain and crypto seem like the gaming we have always done before is beneath you guys. It is a detrimental sea change to gaming, own up to that.
    bcbullyAndemnon
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    Scot said:
    This desperate need to make NFT's blockchain and crypto seem like the gaming we have always done before is beneath you guys. It is a detrimental sea change to gaming, own up to that.
    Why is it unlike what was done before? Everything revolves around implementation. To think otherwise is 100% misunderstanding what Blockchain is. 

    Feel free to jump into blankos yourself. It's free. Costs nothing but a little bit of your time, and you can check out the marketplace on your own.



  • mekheremekhere Member UncommonPosts: 60
    edited November 2022
    Etherium, the white supreme coin, that is manipulated to never die with an endless supply, ruined NFTs. its the gas fee that makes nft so expensive. i hope the 50 rich people have fun selling photos ai robots print out of a machine to each other. you guys are awesome huh? way to monopolize a market and kill it. 
    Post edited by mekhere on
    Champiebcbully
    Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. 
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,731
    Scot said:
    This desperate need to make NFT's blockchain and crypto seem like the gaming we have always done before is beneath you guys. It is a detrimental sea change to gaming, own up to that.
    Why is it unlike what was done before? Everything revolves around implementation. To think otherwise is 100% misunderstanding what Blockchain is. 

    Feel free to jump into blankos yourself. It's free. Costs nothing but a little bit of your time, and you can check out the marketplace on your own.
    You said Blankos requires no external wallet for sales, but what about getting the money out? Wouldn't you need some form of external wallet like a Coinbase or something to be able to sell and withdraw whatever crypto is associated with those NFT's?

    On topic I think that you are correct with implementation, but as of right now 99% of NFT related gaming products or blockchain games tend to be either a failed MMO, a world that doesn't exist yet that you are buying land in, or really basic looking mobile games. It also really doesn't help that any form of communication regarding these games are only talking about the NFT's or selling assets, it never has anything to do with game features or cool aspects of the game. Every time money is the centerpiece, not gameplay. 
    Andemnon
  • mekheremekhere Member UncommonPosts: 60
    All discussions about crypto are irrelevant. until it can be returned, refunded and found, it doesn't even matter. no one will use it.
    Andemnon
    Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. 
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    Scot said:
    This desperate need to make NFT's blockchain and crypto seem like the gaming we have always done before is beneath you guys. It is a detrimental sea change to gaming, own up to that.
    Why is it unlike what was done before? Everything revolves around implementation. To think otherwise is 100% misunderstanding what Blockchain is. 

    Feel free to jump into blankos yourself. It's free. Costs nothing but a little bit of your time, and you can check out the marketplace on your own.
    You said Blankos requires no external wallet for sales, but what about getting the money out? Wouldn't you need some form of external wallet like a Coinbase or something to be able to sell and withdraw whatever crypto is associated with those NFT's?

    On topic I think that you are correct with implementation, but as of right now 99% of NFT related gaming products or blockchain games tend to be either a failed MMO, a world that doesn't exist yet that you are buying land in, or really basic looking mobile games. It also really doesn't help that any form of communication regarding these games are only talking about the NFT's or selling assets, it never has anything to do with game features or cool aspects of the game. Every time money is the centerpiece, not gameplay. 
    So for Blankos, there initially was no Mainnet connectivity at all. That means that you funded within the blankos game, bought within their marketplace, and cashed out through a bank transfer. You didn't need or have the ability for an external wallet at all, because there wasn't a bridge in place to transfer the funds.

    I think they have recently added an ethereum bridge though. I haven't sold anything so I'm not sure if things have changed. I might get on and sell something just to see. 

    Most games do use NFTs as a monetization centerpiece instead of a gameplay feature. NFTs may never be more than that in the majority of games. That's not terrible necessarily, every game needs to make money somehow, but as long as they have unrealistic expectations on how NFTs and their value should work, it's going to be a rough road getting games like this into the mainstream. 
    Panther2103



  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited November 2022
    mekhere said:
    All discussions about crypto are irrelevant. until it can be returned, refunded and found, it doesn't even matter. no one will use it.
    Hard for me to imagine life not using it everyday. I'm not alone.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    bcbully said:
    mekhere said:
    All discussions about crypto are irrelevant. until it can be returned, refunded and found, it doesn't even matter. no one will use it.
    Hard for me to imagine life not using it everyday. I'm not alone.
    Eckankar cultists are also not alone. :)
    MendelDarkZorvanReturnsChampieDeathkon1Vrika
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member RarePosts: 822
    Cancer never dies it just goes dormant
    DarkZorvanReturnsChampie
    Favorite book way of the devil
    https://bit.ly/3DcHgqm
    Favorite Music Playlist
    https://bit.ly/3Rw5txY
  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member RarePosts: 822
    edited November 2022
    The day I see a wow killer blockchain game is the day I win the lottery without dying of old age first it just wont happen its never been realistic people know it but still will try to jump start the shit in hopes of profits, my advise just buy a lottery ticket you get the end results quicker.
    DarkZorvanReturns
    Favorite book way of the devil
    https://bit.ly/3DcHgqm
    Favorite Music Playlist
    https://bit.ly/3Rw5txY
  • MadBomber13MadBomber13 Member UncommonPosts: 84
    Asm0deus said:
    Iselin said:
    ...snip...

    We just want to play better games and we just ain't seeing anything in NFTs that is new and improved like we didn't with New Coke.

    IDK anything about soft drink syrup chemistry and who knows, maybe New Coke used revolutionary new mixes and techniques that were full of potential too. We didn't care about that either. We just knew it tasted like ass compared to old Coke.
    ...snip...

    A bit off topic but I prefer mexican coke to american coke.  It just tastes better. 

    For anyone thinking I am taking the shit here I am not.  American coke is made using high-fructose corn syrup while mexican coke is made using cane suger which also is less processed so technically healthier....lol

    I kind of feel the same about NFT's in gaming...it's the unhealthy choice!  lmao

    I was going to get on a soap box about the fake news that Mexican Coke is made with real sugar vs corn syrup. Ready to be all snarky about how people can be so gullible but I did a bit if research and yes Mexican coke is made with sugar cane. So I'll kindly STFU now...

    Moral of the story: Do your research and admit when you were wrong... :) 
    Champie
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    Iselin said:
    bcbully said:
    mekhere said:
    All discussions about crypto are irrelevant. until it can be returned, refunded and found, it doesn't even matter. no one will use it.
    Hard for me to imagine life not using it everyday. I'm not alone.
    Eckankar cultists are also not alone. :)
    Ok choir boy 
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,849
    [...] Consequently, video gamers have mostly made it clear they don't want that evolution.
    NFTs arent any evolution of gaming in the first place, but another scheme to make money off gamers.


    olepi said:
    In general, I don't like any monetization scheme. My preference is to buy the game, and pay a sub for all content.
    And ideally they should also give you a server software so you can make your own private servers, too, especially even after they shut down their own servers.





  • AndemnonAndemnon Member UncommonPosts: 113
    NFT's, Blockchain, strictly speaking they are going nowhere, even now, more platforms are pulling out of blockchain, despite losing money in the process, it was a flawed concept from the start and now reality is kicking in, ASX is just the latest one to pull out of blockchain, it will not be the last.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    Andemnon said:
    NFT's, Blockchain, strictly speaking they are going nowhere, even now, more platforms are pulling out of blockchain, despite losing money in the process, it was a flawed concept from the start and now reality is kicking in, ASX is just the latest one to pull out of blockchain, it will not be the last.
    They didn't drop it because of Blockchain. They dropped it because they made poor development choices. 

    All they were trying to do was create an on chain distributed ledger, which is exactly what Blockchain is built for and does well, and they made poor choices in development. They chose a chain that couldn't meet demands. 

    A lot of companies are still investing in the technology. 




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