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Should Indie MMORPGs Be Scored on a Different Scale than AAA Games? | One Good Roll | MMORPG.com

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  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,849
    Bad idea. Bloody obviously a very bad idea.

    Who would decide, on what basis, what is Indie and what is AAA ?

    And if a developers status would change from Indie to AAA, would their games suddenly be rated much lower ?

    This hardly solves any relevant problem and creates a multitude of new ones.

    BrainySlapshot1188KyleranCogohi
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Brainy said:

    How is it double speak to recognize that good games of genres that appeal to smaller audiences will have less players than good game of genres with broad appeal?

    Thats not true at all.  Just because a game has a broad appeal does not automatically make them more popular.  Its all about supply and demand.

    Product A:  1 niche game appeals to 1 million potential players, has 9 competitors.

    Product B: Has 10 million potential players, but has 999 clones competing with it.

    Solution:
    Product A has 100,000 average customers per game, vs B has 10,000 average customers per game.


    Also there are other factors, what if the Niche game is the best in its catagory vs the larger game is the worst in its catagory.

    Just look on steam, some of the top selling games are indie Niche games.

    The only thing I would agree with is IF, a product is the Best in its catagory and appeals to potentially more people, it has the chance of being a bigger hit. 

    My point was that different genres of games have audiences of varying size. Games that are good in a genre that has broad appeal with draw more players than one equally good in a genre with narrow appeal. By extension a population that would be considered niche in a genre where games have broad appeal could be seen as substantial in a genre where games have narrow appeal.

    I think that all correct and also rather obvious such that I find the contention over it rather perplexing.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Iselin said:
    One thing has become pretty obvious though: indie studios should stay the hell away from trying to develop MMORPGs and stick to developing  something more modest they can actually handle.

    Even that as a rule has exception. Project:Gorgon has had some measure of success so it is not an absolute impossibility. Developers should stick to what they can handle but that need not be so modest a MMORPG is beyond them.
  • psychicwarspsychicwars Member UncommonPosts: 12
    Why would I care what a reviewer feels is done well? What I want from reviews is accurate information of what is done. Whether it is well or not is for me to decide based on those facts and my preferences.

    Well, then I would say you are in the minority opinion, and that lots of people either trust a certain reviewer's opinion, take it in to consideration, or simply find the presentation to be entertaining. The most opinionated reviewers also tend to be the most popular, not only because some people trust those opinions, but also because they generate the most interest and discussion. I would also say that the topic was on how to score a game, not whether it should be scored at all. If it helps, I would suggest you don't read reviews at all, since they will inevitably be an opinion presented. For cold, hard information, you could read a game's wiki.
  • corrosivechainscorrosivechains Member UncommonPosts: 46
    Indie or not, MMO's are expensive to make, and unlike AAA studios whose budgets are tied to profits, Indies rely on crowdfunding which puts more honest individuals on the hook if the game tanks. If anything, Indie MMO's should be held to a higher standard.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Why would I care what a reviewer feels is done well? What I want from reviews is accurate information of what is done. Whether it is well or not is for me to decide based on those facts and my preferences.

    Well, then I would say you are in the minority opinion, and that lots of people either trust a certain reviewer's opinion, take it in to consideration, or simply find the presentation to be entertaining. The most opinionated reviewers also tend to be the most popular, not only because some people trust those opinions, but also because they generate the most interest and discussion. I would also say that the topic was on how to score a game, not whether it should be scored at all. If it helps, I would suggest you don't read reviews at all, since they will inevitably be an opinion presented. For cold, hard information, you could read a game's wiki.

    I'm sure lots of people do trust the opinions of certain reviews. Lots equating to the majority is a stretch you can provide no evidence of.

    There are some reviewers I do find entertaining but I don't expect them to be a good source of information as they are busy with the other.

    The topic of the thread is whether indie MMORPGs should be evaluated differently than those AAA... not how to score a game in general or whether or not games should be scored at all. The description provided wasn't lacking in detail.

    I am quite capable of separating fact from opinion in reviews and am not prone to consider sites that can be edited by anyone as sources of certain accuracy.

    I'm sure you have your own business to mind. You need not add mine to it.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Indie or not, MMO's are expensive to make, and unlike AAA studios whose budgets are tied to profits, Indies rely on crowdfunding which puts more honest individuals on the hook if the game tanks. If anything, Indie MMO's should be held to a higher standard.
    Funding anything that may or not be is high risk. Those that don't have the stomach for that shouldn't get involved with crowdfunded projects. There is a very good chance they won't work out and the money contributed will be so much dust on the wind.

    What would most benefit from a higher standard is the choice made whether or not to contribute to such projects.
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 1,177
    edited November 2022
    Brainy said:

    I am confused by your Honda vs Ferrari analogy!  Who exactly is the indie company in this example? 

    Honda is less expensive and makes lower priced cars, but also has much more revenue than Ferrari.

    The car industry divides vehicles into catagory types like, sports, suv, convertible, sedan, mini-van, truck etc...  To my knowledge, how large the company is doesnt get calculated.  Why would it?  If Ferrari makes a sedan then it will be judged within that catagory.  So your analogy seems offbase.

    Games sites also divide games into catagories, like MMO's, RPG, FPS, Strategy, Simulation, Puzzle etc...


    Neither are the Honda or the Ferrari. It was an example of things being the same and different. 

    There are categories. There are categories within the categories. This is the whole point. We don't say all cars should be evaluated the same, nor do we say all economy cars, SUVs, trucks, sports cars, etc. should be evaluated the same.

    There are 2 door economy cars, 4 door economy cars, economy hatchbacks, economy wagons, etc., etc., etc. Just like there are sports coupes, sports sedans, sports convertibles, sport wagons, sport SUVs, etc., etc.

    This is true with just about every facet and example in life. Why think an indie company making a niche MMO should be compared to a massive AAA company MMO? Are the expectations the same?... no. Is the scope going to be the same?... no. Are timelines, patches, expansions, release dates, polish, etc. the same?... no.

    The only think that's the same is the "MMO" label, which has a pretty big scope within that specific category, not including the indie vs. AAA argument.

    My example was simply to show that just because a Mazda Miata and a Porsche 911 are both labeled "sports cars" doesn't mean they should be compared to each other.


    Remali said:
    Iselin said:


    One thing has become pretty obvious though: indie studios should stay the hell away from trying to develop MMORPGs and stick to developing  something more modest they can actually handle.
    I agree 100% with this


    Without indie companies making MMOs, we wouldn't have MMOs.
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    Neither are the Honda or the Ferrari. It was an example of things being the same and different. 

    There are categories. There are categories within the categories. This is the whole point. We don't say all cars should be evaluated the same, nor do we say all economy cars, SUVs, trucks, sports cars, etc. should be evaluated the same.


    Well the problem is, the game market is already broken into many different catagories, where there are only a few MMORPG's per year.   There might be more MMO catagories than there are MMO's to compare.

    What is the point of trying to make a comparison, if there is nothing to compare too.

    There there comes a point where you need to stop breaking this down into subcategories and find some common ground.  That solution should be if the game is fun.  This genre is broken down enough.

    Slapshot1188Kyleran
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 1,177
    Brainy said:
    Neither are the Honda or the Ferrari. It was an example of things being the same and different. 

    There are categories. There are categories within the categories. This is the whole point. We don't say all cars should be evaluated the same, nor do we say all economy cars, SUVs, trucks, sports cars, etc. should be evaluated the same.


    Well the problem is, the game market is already broken into many different catagories, where there are only a few MMORPG's per year.   There might be more MMO catagories than there are MMO's to compare.

    What is the point of trying to make a comparison, if there is nothing to compare too.

    There there comes a point where you need to stop breaking this down into subcategories and find some common ground.  That solution should be if the game is fun.  This genre is broken down enough.

    As with just about everything else in life, cars are broken into many different categories, yet they are still broken down into more categories, as I showed in my example. They do this because there are things that matter above and beyond their basic genre.

    What you are suggesting is that all MMOs are the same and therefore all should be measured using the same metric. We all know this isn't true. Is Everquest the same type of MMO as Dark Age of Camelot? Is Eve Online the same type of MMO as Guild Wars 2?

    A lot of indie MMOs are niche (yet another category of MMOs) and should not be compared to games like WoW, ESO or New World just because they fall under the generic category of "MMO".
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    edited November 2022
    Brainy said:
    Neither are the Honda or the Ferrari. It was an example of things being the same and different. 

    There are categories. There are categories within the categories. This is the whole point. We don't say all cars should be evaluated the same, nor do we say all economy cars, SUVs, trucks, sports cars, etc. should be evaluated the same.


    Well the problem is, the game market is already broken into many different catagories, where there are only a few MMORPG's per year.   There might be more MMO catagories than there are MMO's to compare.

    What is the point of trying to make a comparison, if there is nothing to compare too.

    There there comes a point where you need to stop breaking this down into subcategories and find some common ground.  That solution should be if the game is fun.  This genre is broken down enough.

    As with just about everything else in life, cars are broken into many different categories, yet they are still broken down into more categories, as I showed in my example. They do this because there are things that matter above and beyond their basic genre.

    What you are suggesting is that all MMOs are the same and therefore all should be measured using the same metric. We all know this isn't true. Is Everquest the same type of MMO as Dark Age of Camelot? Is Eve Online the same type of MMO as Guild Wars 2?

    A lot of indie MMOs are niche (yet another category of MMOs) and should not be compared to games like WoW, ESO or New World just because they fall under the generic category of "MMO".
    Are "indie" MMOs competing with AAA MMOs for attention and customers?

    If your answer is no, then sure what you say is true. 

    But IMHO that's totally wrong.  A game like Embers IS competing against ESO. A game like EvE Online IS competing with Star Citizen.  A game like Camelot Unchained IS competing with DAoC.

    The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    BrainyKyleran

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  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482

    A lot of indie MMOs are niche (yet another category of MMOs) and should not be compared to games like WoW, ESO or New World just because they fall under the generic category of "MMO".
    So you think we should compare Mortal Online 2 (pvp) with Embers(Pve), but not Mortal Online 2 with Albion Online which is its direct competitor in PVP game.  How does this even make sense.

    The MMO market barely gets a few releases a year.  Many people that play MMO's are open to any MMO that is good.  This site is named for MMORPG but has had to expand to all MMO's because the market is pretty much dead.  So now you want to further segregate the classification into MMORPGPVEIndie and MMORPGPVPIndie or do you want just MMORPGIndie but games dont compete against competitors?  If we add any more letters we might be able to compare a game once a century.
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    As with just about everything else in life, cars are broken into many different categories, yet they are still broken down into more categories, as I showed in my example. They do this because there are things that matter above and beyond their basic genre.

    If they did it your way, ever game would get a 10/10 because there would be no other game to compare it too.  They would all be the best in their class.  What would even be the point of the rating system?




  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 1,177
    Are "indie" MMOs competing with AAA MMOs for attention and customers?

    If your answer is no, then sure what you say is true. 

    But IMHO that's totally wrong.  A game like Embers IS competing against ESO. A game like EvE Online IS competing with Star Citizen.  A game like Camelot Unchained IS competing with DAoC.

    The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    Do people that play MMOs also play RPGs or FPS? If the answer is yes, then I would say all video games compete for attention and customers. 

    You ignore my comparison of Eve and GW2 and chose compare Eve to Star Citizen. Why is that? Is it because you can't clump all MMOs into a single category for comparison? This proves my point that there are subsets in the MMO genre that shouldn't be compared to each other. Indie vs AAA is one of these subsets.

    Brainy said:
    So you think we should compare Mortal Online 2 (pvp) with Embers(Pve), but not Mortal Online 2 with Albion Online which is its direct competitor in PVP game.  How does this even make sense.

    The MMO market barely gets a few releases a year.  Many people that play MMO's are open to any MMO that is good.  This site is named for MMORPG but has had to expand to all MMO's because the market is pretty much dead.  So now you want to further segregate the classification into MMORPGPVEIndie and MMORPGPVPIndie or do you want just MMORPGIndie but games dont compete against competitors?  If we add any more letters we might be able to compare a game once a century.
    I'm not the one here claiming all MMOs should be equally compared to each other. That would be you.

    I'm literally here arguing that I think MMOs should be compared accordingly, not all as one category.

    Brainy said:

    If they did it your way, ever game would get a 10/10 because there would be no other game to compare it too.  They would all be the best in their class.  What would even be the point of the rating system?
    If you take stock in a numbered score, maybe. In reality these scores are subjective. The reviewer gives his/her opinion based on different aspects of the game regardless of the genre. What someone finds engaging, another could see overy verbose. What one sees as graphically engaging, another would see as too stylized or cartoonish.

    I prefer reading on why they liked or disliked something rather than rely on a number.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    Are "indie" MMOs competing with AAA MMOs for attention and customers?

    If your answer is no, then sure what you say is true. 

    But IMHO that's totally wrong.  A game like Embers IS competing against ESO. A game like EvE Online IS competing with Star Citizen.  A game like Camelot Unchained IS competing with DAoC.

    The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    Do people that play MMOs also play RPGs or FPS? If the answer is yes, then I would say all video games compete for attention and customers. 

    You ignore my comparison of Eve and GW2 and chose compare Eve to Star Citizen. Why is that? Is it because you can't clump all MMOs into a single category for comparison? This proves my point that there are subsets in the MMO genre that shouldn't be compared to each other. Indie vs AAA is one of these subsets.


    RPGs and FPS DO compete for attention and customers.  Glad you finally see common sense.

    I didn't ignore EVE and GW2 I just typed stream of thought and SC popped to mind.  YES EvE and GW2 are also competing against each other.
    I and many people reading this have played both...  that should be pretty obvious.

    As I said:  The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    Kyleran

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  • OG_SolareusOG_Solareus Member UncommonPosts: 332
    Game is a game. Path of Exile easily competes with AAA titles. During its hay day Saga of Ryzom surpassed AAA titles.

    People who do amazing work will do amazing work,  os all games are relevant on the same scale. imo


    Slapshot1188Brainy
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    edited December 2022
    Are "indie" MMOs competing with AAA MMOs for attention and customers?

    If your answer is no, then sure what you say is true. 

    But IMHO that's totally wrong.  A game like Embers IS competing against ESO. A game like EvE Online IS competing with Star Citizen.  A game like Camelot Unchained IS competing with DAoC.

    The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    Do people that play MMOs also play RPGs or FPS? If the answer is yes, then I would say all video games compete for attention and customers. 

    You ignore my comparison of Eve and GW2 and chose compare Eve to Star Citizen. Why is that? Is it because you can't clump all MMOs into a single category for comparison? This proves my point that there are subsets in the MMO genre that shouldn't be compared to each other. Indie vs AAA is one of these subsets.


    RPGs and FPS DO compete for attention and customers.  Glad you finally see common sense.

    I didn't ignore EVE and GW2 I just typed stream of thought and SC popped to mind.  YES EvE and GW2 are also competing against each other.
    I and many people reading this have played both...  that should be pretty obvious.

    As I said:  The segment of market who will ONLY play indie games has got to be extraordinarily small, if it even exists at all.  Other than that, the games are in fact all competing for the same eyeballs and wallets.

    I only ever play one game at a time and normally only what I define are MMORPGS's or perhaps lighter multiplayer games like FO76.

    While I understand there are differences between EQ, DAOC, EVE, GW2, POE, Lost Ark or New World, none mattered enough to keep me from playing these games, from as little as a month to over 10 years.

    Automobiles have categories as well, sports cars, light duty / super duty pick-ups, minivans, SUVs etc.

    I view MMOS as I would a single class of automobile, i.e sports cars.

    As mentioned, a Miata doesn't really compare to a Lambo in terms of features or engineering, but the difference is in the price.  

    The trouble with an indie MMO like Embers is they are asking the same price if not more than many AAA and AA titles.

    If Mazda tried to sell their car at a Lambo price I'm pretty sure few would buy them, except for those who needed what is unique about them?

    What might that be you ask?  Miata are extremely small, or at least were many years ago.

    I had some friends who rented a very small garage space in San Francisco about 20 years ago who bought it simply as it was one of the few vehicles back in the day which could fit in the space.  

    Now days they would have more options with Fiats, Smart cars etc.

    Scot

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    Kyleran said:
    I only ever play one game at a time and normally only what I define are MMORPGS's or perhaps lighter multiplayer games like FO76.

    While I understand there are differences between EQ, DAOC, EVE, GW2, POE, Lost Ark or New World, none mattered enough to keep me from playing these games, from as little as a month to over 10 years.

    Automobiles have categories as well, sports cars, light duty / super duty pick-ups, minivans, SUVs etc.

    I view MMOS as I would a single class of automobile, i.e sports cars.

    As mentioned, a Miata doesn't really compare to a Lambo in terms of features or engineering, but the difference is in the price.  

    The trouble with an indie MMO like Embers is they are asking the same price if not more than many AAA and AA titles.

    If Mazda tried to sell their car at a Lambo price I'm pretty sure few would buy them, except for those who needed what is unique about them?

    What might that be you ask?  Miata are extremely small, or at least were many years ago.

    I had some friends who rented a very small garage space in San Francisco about 20 years ago who bought it simply as it was one of the few vehicles back in the day which could fit in the space.  

    Now days they would have more options with Fiats, Smart cars etc.

    It is more about what you use something you buy for, rather than the manufacturers demarcations. We buy cars to drive and MMOs to live in (or rotate on our game list) so they need the same score.
    Kyleran
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 1,177
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    I only ever play one game at a time and normally only what I define are MMORPGS's or perhaps lighter multiplayer games like FO76.

    While I understand there are differences between EQ, DAOC, EVE, GW2, POE, Lost Ark or New World, none mattered enough to keep me from playing these games, from as little as a month to over 10 years.

    Automobiles have categories as well, sports cars, light duty / super duty pick-ups, minivans, SUVs etc.

    I view MMOS as I would a single class of automobile, i.e sports cars.

    As mentioned, a Miata doesn't really compare to a Lambo in terms of features or engineering, but the difference is in the price.  

    The trouble with an indie MMO like Embers is they are asking the same price if not more than many AAA and AA titles.

    If Mazda tried to sell their car at a Lambo price I'm pretty sure few would buy them, except for those who needed what is unique about them?

    What might that be you ask?  Miata are extremely small, or at least were many years ago.

    I had some friends who rented a very small garage space in San Francisco about 20 years ago who bought it simply as it was one of the few vehicles back in the day which could fit in the space.  

    Now days they would have more options with Fiats, Smart cars etc.

    It is more about what you use something you buy for, rather than the manufacturers demarcations. We buy cars to drive and MMOs to live in (or rotate on our game list) so they need the same score.
    I buy cars for specific purposes. If I tried to stuff all my dogs into my Audi R8 or AMG GTS, I'd be miserable. If I tried to take my Toyota Tacoma to the track, I'd be miserable.

    Just like games. If I dried to PvP in LotRO or Everquest, I'd be miserable. If I tried to PvE in a sandbox, I'd be miserable. If I bought a AAA game made by a big developer that had no polish and few options, I'd be upset. If I bought an indie niche game that tried to stretch itself too thin with too many things, I'd be upset.

    Kyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    edited December 2022
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    I only ever play one game at a time and normally only what I define are MMORPGS's or perhaps lighter multiplayer games like FO76.

    While I understand there are differences between EQ, DAOC, EVE, GW2, POE, Lost Ark or New World, none mattered enough to keep me from playing these games, from as little as a month to over 10 years.

    Automobiles have categories as well, sports cars, light duty / super duty pick-ups, minivans, SUVs etc.

    I view MMOS as I would a single class of automobile, i.e sports cars.

    As mentioned, a Miata doesn't really compare to a Lambo in terms of features or engineering, but the difference is in the price.  

    The trouble with an indie MMO like Embers is they are asking the same price if not more than many AAA and AA titles.

    If Mazda tried to sell their car at a Lambo price I'm pretty sure few would buy them, except for those who needed what is unique about them?

    What might that be you ask?  Miata are extremely small, or at least were many years ago.

    I had some friends who rented a very small garage space in San Francisco about 20 years ago who bought it simply as it was one of the few vehicles back in the day which could fit in the space.  

    Now days they would have more options with Fiats, Smart cars etc.

    It is more about what you use something you buy for, rather than the manufacturers demarcations. We buy cars to drive and MMOs to live in (or rotate on our game list) so they need the same score.
    I buy cars for specific purposes. If I tried to stuff all my dogs into my Audi R8 or AMG GTS, I'd be miserable. If I tried to take my Toyota Tacoma to the track, I'd be miserable.

    Just like games. If I dried to PvP in LotRO or Everquest, I'd be miserable. If I tried to PvE in a sandbox, I'd be miserable. If I bought a AAA game made by a big developer that had no polish and few options, I'd be upset. If I bought an indie niche game that tried to stretch itself too thin with too many things, I'd be upset.

    The scoring system should and does take that into account. Lotro would score lower for PvP and higher for questing and so on. The only issue is indie, what should be done there is to mention how cheap it is and include that as part of the score. Bearing in mind not all indies are really cheap.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    edited December 2022
    Scot said:


    The only issue is indie, what should be done there is to mention how cheap it is and include that as part of the score. Bearing in mind not all indies are really cheap.
    Prices change. And not all "cheap" games are indie games. Some cheap games come right from AAA companies.  Heck the predominant model today is most people expect a game for free and to play it for free.

    So sure, monetization ties into a score but I think that is separate from indie/AAA 

    I mean, I think the whole indie/AAA discussion is silly.  Today you have veterans making indie titles.  You have novices making AAA titles.   You have some indie games with budgets in the 8 figure range.  Heck.. one is a half billion dollar juggernaut.

    Whats the definition of indie even mean today?  Is it self-published?  Is it start up?  is it having novice designers? Is it low budget?

    MendelKyleranBrainy

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,457
    Its funny that people make such a fuss about how much money SC has received, but that is nothing compared to what Amazon has at its disposal.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,954
    Its funny that people make such a fuss about how much money SC has received, but that is nothing compared to what Amazon has at its disposal.

    I don't think it's about "money spent" but about drawing money from players without launching in a time frame they think is reasonable.
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    Sovrath said:
    Its funny that people make such a fuss about how much money SC has received, but that is nothing compared to what Amazon has at its disposal.

    I don't think it's about "money spent" but about drawing money from players without launching in a time frame they think is reasonable.
    I also do not think the Amazon comparison works as they have many divisions.  But I think at the end of the day it just reinforces my point that we can't even define what an "indie" is.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,895
    Sovrath said:
    Its funny that people make such a fuss about how much money SC has received, but that is nothing compared to what Amazon has at its disposal.

    I don't think it's about "money spent" but about drawing money from players without launching in a time frame they think is reasonable.
    I also do not think the Amazon comparison works as they have many divisions.  But I think at the end of the day it just reinforces my point that we can't even define what an "indie" is.

    I think in general it means independent of the major publishers. Which would also probably point to self publishing. So no bethesda's and EA's and Amazon's that would be considered large publishers that fund and publish development of games created by other studios. 
    Kyleranultimateduck



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