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Embers Adrift will this game Survive?

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Brainy said:
    cheyane said:

    I don't want to bash this game and I know my standards are impossible in reality because of who were at the helm of that game.

    Why do you think your standards are impossible just because you expect a current 2022 game to be as good as a 1999 game?

    What a world we live in where we have to apologize for expecting a current game to be as good or better than a 20 year old game.

    I don't think EQ lead was some one of a kind genius of his time.  UO, EQ, DAOC, WoW, SWG all did it back then.

    Actually, with Nov 19th being the 3rd anniversary of his death it bears mentioning that Brad McQuaid was actually considered a bit of a genius for his time, with EQ1 being a considered quite the marvel by many when it released.

    So were Richard Garrott, MarkJacobs, Raph Koster, Starr Long, and many other early pioneers in the MMORPG space. 

    Of course, it was a team effort in each case, but the individual contributions of Brad and the others definitely can't be compared to the folks at Embers.

    Remember this, in their day every one of those titles were considered to be AAA, which is more about available funding and they all had comparatively much greater resources right from the start of their development efforts.
    BrainyUngoodAlBQuirkyChildoftheShadows

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    Deathkon1 said:
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    I find them not being on steam flat out stupid with how easy it is to get approved on it.
    This really doesn't make a lot of sense if you sit and think it through for a few minutes.  They are a small team with little funding.  Their goal was to create a very niche title that could support a low but stable population.  They only have one server and it was never stressed beyond a few hundred (few thousand) players.  There was never any discussion about multiple servers or instancing etc... 

    If they launched this on Steam they would have been overwhelmed by mass quantities of players who would never, ever legitimately play a game like this.  It would have clogged their systems and overwhelmed their one server and made it impossible for that small group of legitimate customers to login and play.   It would have been a disaster.

    Now that launch is behind them, I think they can look at other ways to attract attention, maybe thats Steam, maybe it's free weekend trials, or maybe its something like giving thousands a free keys out to sites like this one.

    BrainytidsditKyleranSovrathcheyaneMendelAlBQuirky

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,511
    Deathkon1 said:
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    I find them not being on steam flat out stupid with how easy it is to get approved on it.
    This really doesn't make a lot of sense if you sit and think it through for a few minutes.  They are a small team with little funding.  Their goal was to create a very niche title that could support a low but stable population.  They only have one server and it was never stressed beyond a few hundred (few thousand) players.  There was never any discussion about multiple servers or instancing etc... 

    If they launched this on Steam they would have been overwhelmed by mass quantities of players who would never, ever legitimately play a game like this.  It would have clogged their systems and overwhelmed their one server and made it impossible for that small group of legitimate customers to login and play.   It would have been a disaster.

    Now that launch is behind them, I think they can look at other ways to attract attention, maybe thats Steam, maybe it's free weekend trials, or maybe its something like giving thousands a free keys out to sites like this one.


    No one has mentioned the cost of Steam, rumored to be a 30% take.  A small company struggling for money probably will be less eager to share a modest cost with Steam.  Pricing to compensate for that would probably price themselves out of the market.



    SovrathAlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    Mendel said:

    No one has mentioned the cost of Steam, rumored to be a 30% take.  A small company struggling for money probably will be less eager to share a modest cost with Steam.  Pricing to compensate for that would probably price themselves out of the market.


    The exposure via steam is huge.  Steam is the Walmart of games, if you can get on the shelf per se, you will sell copies just because steam has so much exposure.  Especially with tools like steam recommendations and such.  They recommend games for people that have an inclination to play that specific genre.

    I remember reading that steam doesn't charge for marketing ads, but that could have been old info.  If that is still true, getting free advertising ads on such a large platform is a huge boon for a small company.


    AlBQuirky
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,954
    edited November 2022
    Brainy said:



    The exposure via steam is huge.  Steam is the Walmart of games, if you can get on the shelf per se, you will sell copies just because steam has so much exposure.  Especially with tools like steam recommendations and such.  They recommend games for people that have an inclination to play that specific genre.

    I remember reading that steam doesn't charge for marketing ads, but that could have been old info.  If that is still true, getting free advertising ads on such a large platform is a huge boon for a small company.


    but if they can't afford the cut, they can't afford the cut.

    It would be better to offer the game on GOG or Epic I think.
    KyleranMendelAlBQuirky
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • DilligDillig Member UncommonPosts: 122
    Deathkon1 said:
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    I find them not being on steam flat out stupid with how easy it is to get approved on it.
    This really doesn't make a lot of sense if you sit and think it through for a few minutes.  They are a small team with little funding.  Their goal was to create a very niche title that could support a low but stable population.  They only have one server and it was never stressed beyond a few hundred (few thousand) players.  There was never any discussion about multiple servers or instancing etc... 

    If they launched this on Steam they would have been overwhelmed by mass quantities of players who would never, ever legitimately play a game like this.  It would have clogged their systems and overwhelmed their one server and made it impossible for that small group of legitimate customers to login and play.   It would have been a disaster.

    Now that launch is behind them, I think they can look at other ways to attract attention, maybe thats Steam, maybe it's free weekend trials, or maybe its something like giving thousands a free keys out to sites like this one.

    You are correct to a point. It was never stressed or any talk of having to do another server. Tho instancing did happen and is in game. I remember swapping thru the instances they had of the newbie zone. most I seen was 8. Also remember seeing 3 when I made it to the second zone.
    AlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Qbertq said:
    lahnmir said:
    Embers Adrift is a hobby project built by amateurs in their spare time, it always has been. The idea that they are a “real” company with financial targets and all of that just isn’t applicable here. Whether all of it is any good is up for debate but they did exactly what they wanted to do and actually have more of a product then a veteran like Marc Jacobs does with his real company. They made a game and released it, everything else is icing on the cake, even being a (modest) success.

    Will it survive? Probably not. Is it worse then every professional product out there? Definitely not.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    99.9% of their game is assets from the Unity shop. It's an asset flip at it's core. But *someday* they're going to hire an artist!! 

    That purchased assets were used is not an issue.considering their resources available. What can be is what they chose to do with them.
    That's kind of the point of the Unity Shop, isn't it?

    It is, not that it prevents the critique the use of them often brings.
    AlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Dillig said:
    Brainy said:
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    They won't, because Steam allows refunds.
    I wouldn't be so certain on people being able to get refunds.

    In Embers it takes more than 2 hours to figure out the tutorial area of the zone is the best content in the game.  Its not until after you get out of the newbie zone do you start to realize, there really isn't anything more to the game.

    I think its the reviews they will need to be worried about if anything.  But even then, most people review a game with less than 5 hours of play.  Many will review positive thinking the game is only going to get better.

    So I don't think releasing to Steam would be worse than their current situation.  Which is a massive exodus of players.
    So you sitting her telling people that the newbie area is the best part of the game is a BS lie. CV2 was better than anything in the newbie zone. 


    It's not a lie. It is an opinion informed by a greater exposure to the game than your own. You may disagree with his opinion but you have no basis to declare it a falsehood.
    AlBQuirky
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    Dillig said:
    Deathkon1 said:
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    I find them not being on steam flat out stupid with how easy it is to get approved on it.
    This really doesn't make a lot of sense if you sit and think it through for a few minutes.  They are a small team with little funding.  Their goal was to create a very niche title that could support a low but stable population.  They only have one server and it was never stressed beyond a few hundred (few thousand) players.  There was never any discussion about multiple servers or instancing etc... 

    If they launched this on Steam they would have been overwhelmed by mass quantities of players who would never, ever legitimately play a game like this.  It would have clogged their systems and overwhelmed their one server and made it impossible for that small group of legitimate customers to login and play.   It would have been a disaster.

    Now that launch is behind them, I think they can look at other ways to attract attention, maybe thats Steam, maybe it's free weekend trials, or maybe its something like giving thousands a free keys out to sites like this one.

    You are correct to a point. It was never stressed or any talk of having to do another server. Tho instancing did happen and is in game. I remember swapping thru the instances they had of the newbie zone. most I seen was 8. Also remember seeing 3 when I made it to the second zone.
    Ahh i think you are right.  I vaguely remember that
    AlBQuirky

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    Kyleran said:
    Brainy said:
    cheyane said:

    I don't want to bash this game and I know my standards are impossible in reality because of who were at the helm of that game.

    Why do you think your standards are impossible just because you expect a current 2022 game to be as good as a 1999 game?

    What a world we live in where we have to apologize for expecting a current game to be as good or better than a 20 year old game.

    I don't think EQ lead was some one of a kind genius of his time.  UO, EQ, DAOC, WoW, SWG all did it back then.

    Actually, with Nov 19th being the 3rd anniversary of his death it bears mentioning that Brad McQuaid was actually considered a bit of a genius for his time, with EQ1 being a considered quite the marvel by many when it released.

    So were Richard Garrott, MarkJacobs, Raph Koster, Starr Long, and many other early pioneers in the MMORPG space. 

    Of course, it was a team effort in each case, but the individual contributions of Brad and the others definitely can't be compared to the folks at Embers.

    Remember this, in their day every one of those titles were considered to be AAA, which is more about available funding and they all had comparatively much greater resources right from the start of their development efforts.
    And not one of them has managed to release anything worthwhile since.
    BrainyAlBQuirky
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    cheyane said:
    The reason is there is a lack of talent and funds. Nowadays games require so much more money and the talent seems to have just dissipated or focused on more mundane things like monetization and shareholders.

     Once upon a time when you go back and read the interviews of people who worked on Everquest you get the excitement and stealth they had to employ because Smedley was worried that Sony would cancel the project and yet they had more freedom and funds available if you compare the numbers with the matching inflation.

    I feel there's no chance anymore for a game like Everquest. It will be a poor representation and that goes for Pantheon too. We have games now more innovative on the ways to make money or hide tiers of monetization that just barely pass on the gameplay. Like I said the focus has changed so I am sorry for expecting too much because I honestly don't think there is an avenue for the kind of quality and game I would personally enjoy. It is further complicated by the added focus on action games and flashy combat coupled with good graphics. 

    I have honestly just given up hope. This is my own personal view and may not be any reflection on reality as others may see it.

    Well stated!

    I want factions. I want my decisions to matter in the game world. What consequences of my fighting will I have endure or overcome. Will I become KOS in any major city? Can I learn the vast number of languages from all of the races?

    No... These game play features (and many more) are dead to this genre.

    I'll just leave it there (after writing 4 more paragraphs going on to many sidetracks) :)
    Brainy

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    Scot said:
    cheyane said:
    The reason is there is a lack of talent and funds. Nowadays games require so much more money and the talent seems to have just dissipated or focused on more mundane things like monetization and shareholders.

     Once upon a time when you go back and read the interviews of people who worked on Everquest you get the excitement and stealth they had to employ because Smedley was worried that Sony would cancel the project and yet they had more freedom and funds available if you compare the numbers with the matching inflation.

    I feel there's no chance anymore for a game like Everquest. It will be a poor representation and that goes for Pantheon too. We have games now more innovative on the ways to make money or hide tiers of monetization that just barely pass on the gameplay. Like I said the focus has changed so I am sorry for expecting too much because I honestly don't think there is an avenue for the kind of quality and game I would personally enjoy. It is further complicated by the added focus on action games and flashy combat coupled with good graphics. 

    I have honestly just given up hope. This is my own personal view and may not be any reflection on reality as others may see it.
    I don't think we should ever give up hope, but mine is a candle in the wind compared to what it used to be. I had my greatest hopes of MMOs going into a new era after the launch of Lotro, ESO, the start of crowd funded MMOs and launch of the classic servers. Each time the promise was not fulfilled, MMOs as a genre continue on a trajectory that it is becoming harder and harder for me to find a home in. We may find a niche home yet in a CF MMO or return to our old ones, that's the best bet I see for now.

    Yes! I don't want to give up hope, but like your flickering candle flame, my hope is the ember smoking at the end of that wick :(

    I want to be a "puppet master" that relies on my character's skill. Most MMOs today want ME to click to block, click to dodge, click to riposte, and basically play "AlBQuirky in the game." I want to play someone NOT AlBQuirky :D

    Will Embers Adrift accomplish this? I don't see it. But it may "stick around" for players that find enjoyment yet find it hard to "thrive", as someone else pointed out. It sounds like the game has quite a few issues that seem detrimental to what they're trying to accomplish, mainly needing lots of players to make it work and lack of content.

    I wish them the best and I give them thumbs up for at least trying :)
    BrainyScot

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    edited November 2022
    AlBQuirky said:
    Yes! I don't want to give up hope, but like your flickering candle flame, my hope is the ember smoking at the end of that wick :(

    I want to be a "puppet master" that relies on my character's skill. Most MMOs today want ME to click to block, click to dodge, click to riposte, and basically play "AlBQuirky in the game." I want to play someone NOT AlBQuirky :D

    Will Embers Adrift accomplish this? I don't see it. But it may "stick around" for players that find enjoyment yet find it hard to "thrive", as someone else pointed out. It sounds like the game has quite a few issues that seem detrimental to what they're trying to accomplish, mainly needing lots of players to make it work and lack of content.

    I wish them the best and I give them thumbs up for at least trying :)
    Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.
    Slapshot1188AlBQuirky
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    cheyane said:
    The reason is there is a lack of talent and funds. 
    I agree lack of talent most of all.  Something has changed on these dev teams where the talent has disappeared.  Maybe its because there were fewer games so the talent pool was more concentrated with high performers early on.

    Lack of funds, that's a big questionable.  Some of these games have come out with some pretty big budgets and still don't seem to put out good content.

    Crowfall had like $35 mil?  If you cant put out something that attracts more than 500 people at launch for $35 mil, there's a problem and money isn't it.

    Star Citizens, is what like $400 mil?  How much do you need to put out an amazing product geez.

    Google shows Bless Online at $61 mil, LOL

    I have seen some small low budget games (not MMO's) with extremely small dev teams that have amazing games that attract millions of players.  Sure maybe the graphics are not there, but the gameplay depth is first rate, and those make it to the top of the Steam Charts.

    Where are the low graphic indie MMO's with amazing depth releasing?  All we keep seeing are shallow cash grab games releasing in the MMO genre.  Its like the MMO genre is for suckers.  Yeah I have been bamboozled many times, I am so sick of it.



    MendelAlBQuirky
  • QbertqQbertq Member UncommonPosts: 399
    Qbertq said:
    If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business.   I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me.  I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.

    Some companies have the clout to do it.  I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink.  A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.

    I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now.  It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.

    I wish them luck 
    They won't, because Steam allows refunds.
    Not always.  I was going to buy FFXIV, and it said this item isn't refundable.    
    KyleranAlBQuirkyDarkZorvanReturns
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Brainy said:
    cheyane said:
    The reason is there is a lack of talent and funds. 
    I agree lack of talent most of all.  Something has changed on these dev teams where the talent has disappeared.  Maybe its because there were fewer games so the talent pool was more concentrated with high performers early on.




    There are plenty of talented developers in the world, my guess is many (most?) don't or won't work in the gaming industry.

    Longer hours, poorer benefits, lower pay, and lack of stability all seem to be more prevalent in game development than in other technology industries.

    An interesting anecdotal observation from the financial services tech side where I work, developers from India are very prevalent due to a long established post university training program set up by large contract firms over 30 years ago.

    The department I work for has 70 or so offshore workers in India, but here in the states at least 75% of the staff is also from India, and not because they are paid less, they have skills and experience in certain highly specialized software packages that no one in the US trains for.

    But you know what, few, if any even play video games, and when I've asked none have ever given a thought to going into game development as it wasn't even an option at any point of their educational process. 

    I recall back in 2002 after everyone got laid off at the Telco firm we worked for (Lucent) this very talented, young Asian developer moved to California to pursue his dream of getting into game development.

    Despite coming from a low wage state, Florida, his lack of game development experience meant he couldn't find anyone willing to pay him a living wage so he eventually settled on going back into Telco.










    BrainyGreatnessSovrathcheyaneAlBQuirkyScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    Scot said:
    Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.

    What are they doing that deserves applause, other than to contribute tothe mass amount of trashy games out there?  This genre doesnt need more bad games.  What it needs is some good games that people can sink money into, rather than spread the money around to a bunch of trashy products.

    Do you feel the same way about home builders that build homes on unsupported sand?  Or what about car mechanics that cause more problems in your vehicle than they fix.  I remember living in Southern California, and hearing stories of people getting their car seats reappolstered in Tijuana Mexico where they used horse manure for stuffing inside.  Yeah I am sure the world needs more of these enterprising businesses.

    How about we get people who actually make a decent MMO for a change?  People that have good ideas and standards.  Praising people for putting out a cash grab is weird to me.

    The game has lost 85% of its playerbase in 30 days, it will lose over 95% in a few months, and thats of a small group to begin with.   Why is this good for the MMO genre?


    MendelAlBQuirky
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,954
    Kyleran said:
    Brainy said:
    cheyane said:
    The reason is there is a lack of talent and funds. 
    I agree lack of talent most of all.  Something has changed on these dev teams where the talent has disappeared.  Maybe its because there were fewer games so the talent pool was more concentrated with high performers early on.




    There are plenty of talented developers in the world, my guess is many (most?) don't or won't work in the gaming industry.

    Longer hours, poorer benefits, lower pay, and lack of stability all seem to be more prevalent in game development than in other technology industries.



    Not to mention, for some, getting flack from angry gamers because of some update or change that they don't like.
    AlBQuirky
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    Sovrath said:
    Not to mention, for some, getting flack from angry gamers because of some update or change that they don't like.
    Well it works both ways.  Back when good games were being developed game devs were soaking in all the praise, making bankroll.

    Make bad games and get critized, who would have thought.
    AlBQuirkyRemaliDarkZorvanReturnsuser298
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,954
    Brainy said:
    Sovrath said:
    Not to mention, for some, getting flack from angry gamers because of some update or change that they don't like.
    Well it works both ways.  Back when good games were being developed game devs were soaking in all the praise, making bankroll.

    Make bad games and get critized, who would have thought.
    I'm not talking about criticism. Of course there should be criticism. I'm talking about death threats, finding these developers at their houses, constant verbal abuse, etc.


    BrainyAlBQuirky
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Sovrath said:
    Brainy said:
    Sovrath said:
    Not to mention, for some, getting flack from angry gamers because of some update or change that they don't like.
    Well it works both ways.  Back when good games were being developed game devs were soaking in all the praise, making bankroll.

    Make bad games and get critized, who would have thought.
    I'm not talking about criticism. Of course there should be criticism. I'm talking about death threats, finding these developers at their houses, constant verbal abuse, etc.


    Hmm, here in the US those are all pretty much par for the course for those in the public eye including Supreme Court Justices, Speakers of the House, celebrities, business leaders,  why should game developers get a free pass?

    ;)
    SovrathcheyaneAlBQuirky

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    Brainy said:
    Its like the MMO genre is for suckers.  Yeah I have been bamboozled many times, I am so sick of it.
    I agree here. It also explains why you seem a bit perturbed about Embers. Now I understand where that's coming from :)

    I still blame Facebook games, especially Zynga for the state of MMOs today :angry:
    BrainyMendel

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Brainy said:
    Star Citizens, is what like $400 mil?  How much do you need to put out an amazing product geez.


    I imagine they would respond with something like:

    How much are you willing to put in to our amazing product?
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    Brainy said:
    Scot said:
    Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.

    What are they doing that deserves applause, other than to contribute tothe mass amount of trashy games out there?  This genre doesnt need more bad games.  What it needs is some good games that people can sink money into, rather than spread the money around to a bunch of trashy products.

    Do you feel the same way about home builders that build homes on unsupported sand?  Or what about car mechanics that cause more problems in your vehicle than they fix.  I remember living in Southern California, and hearing stories of people getting their car seats reappolstered in Tijuana Mexico where they used horse manure for stuffing inside.  Yeah I am sure the world needs more of these enterprising businesses.

    How about we get people who actually make a decent MMO for a change?  People that have good ideas and standards.  Praising people for putting out a cash grab is weird to me.

    The game has lost 85% of its playerbase in 30 days, it will lose over 95% in a few months, and thats of a small group to begin with.   Why is this good for the MMO genre?
    I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you? 
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 1,482
    Scot said:
    I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you? 
    Who cares if there is nothing new to invest in, do you really want a defective product as the alternative?

    Do we need a new plane manufacturer that makes defective planes that crash and burn from the sky just because they havent been coming out with anything innovative lately?

    Yes I despartely want a new MMO to release, but it needs to be at least comparible in quality to other games on the market.  I certainly dont want to go backwards in quality.

    Sure they were committed to a long development and releasing something.  So you expect people to just be happy about here is my $40 + $15 sub participation trophy?  For a completely substandard product that has maybe 15% of the game finished with ZERO systems in a completed state?
    user298AlBQuirky
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