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Reviewing a post I made in 2009...

2

Comments

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    As to your opinion of how you feel things are it is not possible for you to be wrong. As to the accuracy of many of your assertions you're not so blessed.

    Many of them are incorrect and your basis of analysis is quite small in comparison to the variety of games available.

    Your post reads largely like a parroting of opinions others have expressed with little if anything otherwise.

    As to a huge argument coming from other posters I don't know if they'll bother. You haven't said anything that hasn't been addressed countless times already.
    I've addressed the problem from countless angles, yet it never sinks in. Its too late, most will never understand what an mmorpg is.  All were getting are story quest easy solo games on line that last two months at best. 


    Since it's all garbage, we don't have anything much to talk about.  Most here will argue this point to the bitter end.

    Countless times, to be sure. I don't recall much variance in the way of angle. It all sinks in as none of has been hard to understand. The making of your points doesn't provide them the automatic validity you seem to think or necessitate agreement by others.

    There are many MMORPGs that have been running for many years and show no signs of discontinuance. We are getting all of thoe so your claim all "last two months at best" is absolute rubbish. Embers Adrift is neither story quest focused or easy to play solo, further undermining your claim of "all", though it may yet satisfy your claim regarding duration of operation.

    It's all garbage according to you and those of like opinion. It is not to those with contrary opinion. Both of these perspectives are represented on the forums.

    Some here will argue it forever, but as for the bitter end... well that's already past by your stated preferences. What remains of that are outliers that have weathered the storm of change and a few niche games struggling to find a foothold among them.


    I haven't read ahead to see if Delete answered, but the "lasts 2 months" I took to mean the time it takes beat the MMO and then move on. I could be wrong :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.




    AlBQuirkyScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    AlBQuirky said:
    As to your opinion of how you feel things are it is not possible for you to be wrong. As to the accuracy of many of your assertions you're not so blessed.

    Many of them are incorrect and your basis of analysis is quite small in comparison to the variety of games available.

    Your post reads largely like a parroting of opinions others have expressed with little if anything otherwise.

    As to a huge argument coming from other posters I don't know if they'll bother. You haven't said anything that hasn't been addressed countless times already.
    I've addressed the problem from countless angles, yet it never sinks in. Its too late, most will never understand what an mmorpg is.  All were getting are story quest easy solo games on line that last two months at best. 


    Since it's all garbage, we don't have anything much to talk about.  Most here will argue this point to the bitter end.

    Countless times, to be sure. I don't recall much variance in the way of angle. It all sinks in as none of has been hard to understand. The making of your points doesn't provide them the automatic validity you seem to think or necessitate agreement by others.

    There are many MMORPGs that have been running for many years and show no signs of discontinuance. We are getting all of thoe so your claim all "last two months at best" is absolute rubbish. Embers Adrift is neither story quest focused or easy to play solo, further undermining your claim of "all", though it may yet satisfy your claim regarding duration of operation.

    It's all garbage according to you and those of like opinion. It is not to those with contrary opinion. Both of these perspectives are represented on the forums.

    Some here will argue it forever, but as for the bitter end... well that's already past by your stated preferences. What remains of that are outliers that have weathered the storm of change and a few niche games struggling to find a foothold among them.


    I haven't read ahead to see if Delete answered, but the "lasts 2 months" I took to mean the time it takes beat the MMO and then move on. I could be wrong :)

    He may have, and I could see that being more of a thing for people trying out new games to see if they'd enjoy them. For those very particular it may be most of what they do in terms of MMORPGs. I think most people that find something they do like will be more inclined to hang about for a good while.
    AlBQuirky
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.



    ScotAlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.
    You weren't a Khajiit? I feel betrayed as I was one!

    That said we never featured highly on the must have race list, I picked them because I liked the sound of their voices and the stories involving them were good. Just need to work on my meta-slave credentials I guess. :) 
    AlBQuirky
  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.
    You weren't a Khajiit? I feel betrayed as I was one!

    That said we never featured highly on the must have race list, I picked them because I liked the sound of their voices and the stories involving them were good. Just need to work on my meta-slave credentials I guess. :) 
    If you want a character focused on thievery and stealth for making money in the world and via Thieves Guild, can't beat a Khajiit.
    AlBQuirkyScot
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    edited October 2022
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.
    Maybe I'm "too old school?"

    I accomplished "differing play styles" by creating alternative characters. I don't want my "wizard" suddenly becoming a "ninja". I'd rather keep my "immersion" by creating a whole character.

    Remember when "backstories" were a thing? They had a spot on your character sheet to write it all out (or most of it) that others could see when they "inspected" you.

    How "strange" am I? ;)

    [edit]
    As a postscript, I had this thought after posting: In an MMORPG with a subscription, this "tactic" (alternative characters) meant MORE time playing the game. Win-Win, don't you think?
    IselinDarkZorvanReturns

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,849
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    AlBQuirky
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,486
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    AlBQuirky

  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    Even EvE Online lets you create your own bio and backstory for each character.
    AlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    edited November 2022
    AlBQuirky said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.
    Maybe I'm "too old school?"

    I accomplished "differing play styles" by creating alternative characters. I don't want my "wizard" suddenly becoming a "ninja". I'd rather keep my "immersion" by creating a whole character.

    Remember when "backstories" were a thing? They had a spot on your character sheet to write it all out (or most of it) that others could see when they "inspected" you.

    How "strange" am I? ;)

    [edit]
    As a postscript, I had this thought after posting: In an MMORPG with a subscription, this "tactic" (alternative characters) meant MORE time playing the game. Win-Win, don't you think?
    I feel and do the same.

    Even in  ESO, where I can theoretically do it all with one character, I have 15 max-level characters.

    Same thing in New World. One character can do it all but I don't want to play that way.

    People in that official forum are also very aggressively against anyone wanting alts on the same server. Something about cheating and spying lol. Weird crowd over there :)


    AlBQuirky
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Kyleran said:

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.


    Those darn for profit companies and their profit seeking ways.

    Well, they did miss the opportunity to not give players any builds slots and the station that allows one to make default use of the system, instead charging money for each and every bit of it.

    Their monetization skills are losing their edge I guess.
    AlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.

    Yeah, up to 1,000 of them if you play on Homecoming.

    Champions Online also has that feature.
    AlBQuirky
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,388
    edited November 2022
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    Yes, CoH had a great "backstory" feature. I had fun sitting in Atlas Park (or Galaxy City) and just reading hero backstories. Some had me rolling on the floor :)

    Is it my faulty memory, or did EQ have backstories in early 2000's? I thought it did, but I'm not sure.

    What EQ DID have that I enjoyed was a different starting city for nearly all 15(?) starting races. I wasted so much time exploring each one with a new alt  character :)

    Anyway, My name is AlBQuirky and I'm an altoholic."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 847
    Don't be so quick to judge things. One man's villain is another man's hero, after all. Meaning, while you might dislike the state of genre, others might love it. I judge it on per game basis. WoW is not my cup of tea, WoWhammer was quite fun and satisfying, AoC had nice ideas, LoTR:O had beautiful art side and ideas, but the gameplay was ... meh, SWTOR was one of the best games I played, Neverwinter has an awesome core, but the execution is somewhat lacking etc etc.
    AlBQuirky
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,511
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    Yes, CoH had a great "backstory" feature. I had fun sitting in Atlas Park (or Galaxy City) and just reading hero backstories. Some had me rolling on the floor :)

    Is it my faulty memory, or did EQ have backstories in early 2000's? I thought it did, but I'm not sure.

    What EQ DID have that I enjoyed was a different starting city for nearly all 15(?) starting races. I wasted so much time exploring each one with a new alt  character :)

    Anyway, My name is AlBQuirky and I'm an altoholic."

    I believe you are correct, AlBQ.  EQ1 did have a 'backstory' page that others could see when they ID'd you.  It was a royal pain to enter, and had very bare minimum editing tools.  It's not there anymore; I don't know when they removed it, either.  It was probably one of the many times they redid the inventory interface, but which one is a mystery to me.



    AlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,447
    edited November 2022
    Mendel said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    Yes, CoH had a great "backstory" feature. I had fun sitting in Atlas Park (or Galaxy City) and just reading hero backstories. Some had me rolling on the floor :)

    Is it my faulty memory, or did EQ have backstories in early 2000's? I thought it did, but I'm not sure.

    What EQ DID have that I enjoyed was a different starting city for nearly all 15(?) starting races. I wasted so much time exploring each one with a new alt  character :)

    Anyway, My name is AlBQuirky and I'm an altoholic."

    I believe you are correct, AlBQ.  EQ1 did have a 'backstory' page that others could see when they ID'd you.  It was a royal pain to enter, and had very bare minimum editing tools.  It's not there anymore; I don't know when they removed it, either.  It was probably one of the many times they redid the inventory interface, but which one is a mystery to me.




    Is there a difference between "backstory" and "bio" when it comes to characters?


    SWG and LotRO both had bio entries on your characters and I enjoyed that feature. Admittedly, most of us just used it to list out our achievements with that character, as well as list out our alts. But I enjoyed reading other peoples proper backstories that they'd written out.



    I remember a friend of mine had "only person to trade with a jawa" in his bio in SWG. It became a big ice-breaker for him, so many people would inspect him, read about trading with jawas, then start asking him questions about it.
    AlBQuirky
  • DarkZorvanReturnsDarkZorvanReturns Member RarePosts: 654
    Mendel said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:




    Is there a difference between "backstory" and "bio" when it comes to characters?



    Same thing.
    AlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,526
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    You toss around a lot of statistics, 5%, 90%, any links to support your claims?

    My friends and I are all playing New World and none of us are meta slaves.
    Sure, the top tier players follow but for the more casual players it just isn't the case in my experience.


    Known statistics from WoW during the covenant era, I am sure WoWhead articles talking about covenant balance and showing statistics between class and covenant are still there, the issue was very known to anyone who was playing WoW at the time.


    Also you are playing new world.
    Are you telling me when you are gonna do high end mutated expeditions are you not gonna change your weapon to the element that does the most damage and remove the weapon that does the least damage? Oh you like void gauntlet let's say? too bad its shit for certain weeks/expeditions :)

    New world went for your model of damage types so expeditions often have bosses and enemies that require certain damage time else you are doing far less damage.

    People are complaining in the forums lately that with party finder their previous 15 minute metaslave clears are taking 40 minutes showing what big of a difference in damage optimal weapons make, when New world adds raids are you not gonna change weapon to the one that does 20% more damage to the boss?

    Or do you believe you will retain this clueless big new world feeling forever like in the early days of any mmo?

    Classic wow proved this, people were clueless back in the day, when they launched classic their ""hard"" raids died in literally minutes and were a joke, that is because the communities are not the same anymore, cluelessness is gone once it becomes more popular/big.


    There's only ONE way to break metaslavery, and that is to make all skill values change within a specified range every day or two so meta never truly settles and people arent allowed to figure it out so they are FORCED god forbid, to play what they like. Frequent changes is the only way.
    Disclaimer, I don't play the top end content you've described so the problem isn't much of a concern.

    I have raided in the past and have no objection to slotting an efficient build to clear the content.

    What I don't care for is not being able to run multiple builds with ease, ESO solved for this recently so I could quickly shift between builds based on circumstances.

    NW not so much, my skills and abilities are focused on tanking, so is my gear, so even if swapping out a different weapon is possible or required even I won't be doing it unless it supports Str/Dex.
    I heard about ESO having a build changer but had not experienced it, I think Rifts was more of a template changer, ESO's seems more complex. Which I have to say flies in the face of easy-mode design, I was surprised when I heard about it.

    There is one other way Ralphie would be happy, have a MMO where players have no input into the design of their character or class, if the MMO uses classes. More complex systems, like the ones we are used to in MMOs will cause problems, that will always be the case and you have to take that rough with the smooth.
    Depends how you view designs, ESO's build changer definitely makes things easier in that one character can flip between multiple builds/roles in a snap.

    My Dragon Knight tank was able to have strong PVE dungeon running build, a PVP build and a high DPS build for overland content or when raids had all the tanks they needed.  

    Now, the true meta slave would probably still have multiple alts for each role as my Argoninan was optimal for PVE dungeons but in PVP Nords or Orcs were considered meta.

    Still, I never was kicked because I showed up with the wrong race or build as long as I had an appropriate gear set which in most cases had several alternatives.

    Some of the highest level content did require some very specific set ups but I just stayed away from those as their only reward was more gear for content I'd probably never run unless it got to farm status in the future.

    Of course, Zenimax never misses an opportunity to monetize, giving all players two free builds which can only be changed when in their house.  There was a vendor in the cash shop many bought (along with extra build slots) which let your group or raid change builds in the open world or in dungeon entrances.

    5000 crowns base price as I recall, unless put on sale for around 3500.
    You weren't a Khajiit? I feel betrayed as I was one!

    That said we never featured highly on the must have race list, I picked them because I liked the sound of their voices and the stories involving them were good. Just need to work on my meta-slave credentials I guess. :) 
    I was an Argoninan, terrific in game back story about the discrimination we still faced by our former slave masters.

    Only disappointment was there wasn't an option to kill the NPC who was scorning me while belittling my people, but definitely a few opportunities to betray them.


    AlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,959
    edited November 2022
    Kyleran said:
    I was an Argoninan, terrific in game back story about the discrimination we still faced by our former slave masters.

    Only disappointment was there wasn't an option to kill the NPC who was scorning me while belittling my people, but definitely a few opportunities to betray them.


    I have never heard anyone complaining about the stories forming early experiences in ESO, all are good, where they seem to go adrift is in the expansions where many people say the stories seem very similar. It is hard to maintain a consistently high level of writing, games are harder than novels I think because the demands of the game impact the writing.

    But ESO did not go down the WoW route thankfully, we saw the like of Susie a long time WoW lore fan throw her hands up in despair and saying she was ignoring new lore releases. I heard that echoed back in my old WoW guild a few times. WoW consistently put the cart before the horse, gaming before lore, ESO has rarely done that.
    AlBQuirkyGorwe
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 847
    ESO has constantly been disappointing for me. Idk, something about it never quite fit for me. It is a beautiful game though.
    AlBQuirkyTheocritus
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,372
    edited November 2022
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    I was an Argoninan, terrific in game back story about the discrimination we still faced by our former slave masters.

    Only disappointment was there wasn't an option to kill the NPC who was scorning me while belittling my people, but definitely a few opportunities to betray them.


    I have never heard anyone complaining about the stories forming early experiences in ESO, all are good, where they seem to go adrift is in the expansions where many people say the stories seem very similar. It is hard to maintain a consistently high level of writing, games are harder than novels I think because the demands of the game impact the writing.

    But ESO did not go down the WoW route thankfully, we saw the like of Susie a long time WoW lore fan throw her hands up in despair and saying she was ignoring new lore releases. I heard that echoed back in my old WoW guild a few times. WoW consistently put the cart before the horse, gaming before lore, ESO has rarely done that.
    By good, you mean only in terms of MMORPGs.  Video games in general offer a lot better stories in other genres.

    Once you've experienced narratives like Hellblade, Disco Elysium, or Life is Strange: True Colors, you realize how archaic (*at best*) story content in MMORPGs is.

    If you're looking for a narrative driven adventure, MMORPGs are one of the last genres I'd recommend, down there with TCGs.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,495
    Mendel said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    Yes, CoH had a great "backstory" feature. I had fun sitting in Atlas Park (or Galaxy City) and just reading hero backstories. Some had me rolling on the floor :)

    Is it my faulty memory, or did EQ have backstories in early 2000's? I thought it did, but I'm not sure.

    What EQ DID have that I enjoyed was a different starting city for nearly all 15(?) starting races. I wasted so much time exploring each one with a new alt  character :)

    Anyway, My name is AlBQuirky and I'm an altoholic."

    I believe you are correct, AlBQ.  EQ1 did have a 'backstory' page that others could see when they ID'd you.  It was a royal pain to enter, and had very bare minimum editing tools.  It's not there anymore; I don't know when they removed it, either.  It was probably one of the many times they redid the inventory interface, but which one is a mystery to me.




    Is there a difference between "backstory" and "bio" when it comes to characters?


    For myself, I use those terms differently. If it is written up only as a narrative of the character's origin I consider it backstory. Should it go beyond that I feel it a bio.
    AlBQuirky
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,331
    edited November 2022
    Mendel said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:
    You could never set a backstory in Vanguard, so its not a relevant feature ! :p

    It sounds nice, but I dont remember any of my games ever having this option.
    You can in City of Heroes. I had some really elaborate ones.
    Yes, CoH had a great "backstory" feature. I had fun sitting in Atlas Park (or Galaxy City) and just reading hero backstories. Some had me rolling on the floor :)

    Is it my faulty memory, or did EQ have backstories in early 2000's? I thought it did, but I'm not sure.

    What EQ DID have that I enjoyed was a different starting city for nearly all 15(?) starting races. I wasted so much time exploring each one with a new alt  character :)

    Anyway, My name is AlBQuirky and I'm an altoholic."

    I believe you are correct, AlBQ.  EQ1 did have a 'backstory' page that others could see when they ID'd you.  It was a royal pain to enter, and had very bare minimum editing tools.  It's not there anymore; I don't know when they removed it, either.  It was probably one of the many times they redid the inventory interface, but which one is a mystery to me.




    Is there a difference between "backstory" and "bio" when it comes to characters?


    For myself, I use those terms differently. If it is written up only as a narrative of the character's origin I consider it backstory. Should it go beyond that I feel it a bio.
    For it to be "bio", don't you have to be able to play it in the game? 
    The way I see that, if you have a backstory of troubles with Orcs, and if you always try to play to defeat Orcs, that works. 
    It would be nice of Characters got tiered titles for doing things in-game that could fit in with your bio. 

    Of course, Themepark designs aren't going to allow you to "specialize" like that. And I don't want to say that dirty word that begins with an "S", as I'm getting the feeling some around here think it fits me, too. 
    AlBQuirky

    Once upon a time....

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