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Turn up difficulty on most, BINGO we have our mmorpg back.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,365
edited March 27 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

Trying a new approach someone suggested, keep it short and to the point.

Short version,

In studying Elders Scrolls Online, I pumped myself up with so much energy to play it was amazing.  Features, quality, graphics.  Could actually surpass World of Warcraft. 

This is until I watched Youtube footage.  No damage ever.  People maximizing their characters along with deep crafting……… all for what ?.... To gather 40 and kill them all faster than just 30 ? 

Really, REALLY !!!   Whats with that ? 


Three possible reasons I could think of:

- low amount of content, get you to end game in 30 days, and lazy balance of creatures.

- 4 year old Johnny can play too.

- Rush you to the next paid expansion. 

Same with GW2, FF14, ESO, WoW and most all second generation games. 


My Final point TURN UP THE DIFFICULTY  X10 and all these games became mmorpg's again (with community).  Other than balancing things, all normal features seem to be in place automatically.  

Short :)


DarkestOverlordBrainyMMOExposedHawkaya399DeadSpockBluefish
«13456711

Comments

  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 709
    edited March 27
    Turning up the difficulty wont work well for non role based grouping games. Difficulty needs to be met with better coordination and strategising and following assigned roles. In some (I would argue most modern) MMORPG's, this would result in brute force zerging which for ESO would mean lag fest.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,107
     difficulty up but do the reward value up to ?

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,365
    edited March 27
    iixviiiix said:
     difficulty up but do the reward value up to ?

    Absoutly not,
    Rewards seem to be pre-adjust..... But the good news, it would count :)

    Off the cuff.... It seems like EVERYTHING is mostly in place but the hot button for difficulty.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,792
    edited March 27
    The entire gaming industry is headed the opposite way; easy, easier and easiest. I think this started around twenty years ago, but the pace for different genres varies. The top shooters hold out, but even they are not immune to this theme of ever easier game design.

    More difficulty in MMOs in the right areas would be a big help to stopping MMOs being a yawn fest as XP is like taking candy from a baby. The other side of this is solo play, everything must be soloable and that makes it a walk over for the few players who still group. Yawn...we need something to put a boot up players arses and put an element of danger into gameplay.
    Po_ggBrainy

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,032
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    AmarantharNarugimmodiumKyleranMMOExposed
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,365
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    IselinNarugEponyxDamor
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,032
    edited March 27
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    I'm guessing you have very limited MMORPG experience.

    Like for example... did you ever play LOTRO at release? In groups you had a special mechanic called Fellowship Maneuvers that was powerful and fun to use and there were even a couple of classes that could trigger them deliberately.

    Grouping was fun but there was plenty of room for soloers or role players that just wanted to hang out somewhere and play music together.

    Forced grouping through higher difficulty that can't be done solo is just zealot thinking: "you must do it the way I like it or GTFO." It's dumb shit man.
    MMOExposed
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 4,113
    As far as grouping, or numbers if grouping isn't so hard coded, I think there needs to be some spawn boosts that kick in when the content is simply overpowered by numbers. 

    I also think that there needs to be some logic to it. 
    I proposed several times that some dungeon "rooms" or areas should have some means for the MOBs to call in reinforcements. Things like bellowing horns, large bronze bells, and huge gongs. And give the players a chance to prevent such a "calling" through tactics. Assassins would be special forces here, but so could the right Mages or others. 

    I think there should be a fixed number of MOBs in the entire dungeon, and defeated MOB reinforcements should reduce the next encounters. However, if the MOBs get away with a randomized AI strategy to summon enough reinforcements, the Players might be driven back. Defeated. Live to fight another day. 
    Got some loot, some advancement, and some knowledge of what that Dungeon MOB set can bring to the battle. 

    As far as Solo, I never expected that all "Classes" or Players could be able to be effective Soloers. That should be the place for stealth, magic of that nature, and quick, deadly hits in silence. 

    Please, for the love of all that the gods gift ye, get away from this standard game design. It can never work well. It's too rigid and formula driven. 

    Once upon a time....

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,365
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    I'm guessing you have very limited MMORPG experience.

    Like for example... did you ever play LOTRO at release? In groups you had a special mechanic called Fellowship Maneuvers that was powerful and fun to use and there were even a couple of classes that could trigger them deliberately.

    Grouping was fun but there was plenty of room for soloers or role players that just wanted to hang out somewhere and play music together.

    Forced grouping through higher difficulty that can't be done solo is just zealot thinking: "you must do it the way I like it or GTFO." It's dumb shit man.
    don't try talking your way out of it.


    These games (if you can even call them a game) are a joke.  Don't use back in the day an excuse to play word games I don't play them.
    Iselinmmolou
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 4,113
    It's not "difficulty", it's how it's done. 
    You cannot have true difficulty if the content never changes. 
    Randomness and adjustments combined, these are the means to "difficulty" that works for game play. Otherwise, players can figure out the defined means to always winning. It'll be on some cheat site. 

    Once upon a time....

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,032
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    I'm guessing you have very limited MMORPG experience.

    Like for example... did you ever play LOTRO at release? In groups you had a special mechanic called Fellowship Maneuvers that was powerful and fun to use and there were even a couple of classes that could trigger them deliberately.

    Grouping was fun but there was plenty of room for soloers or role players that just wanted to hang out somewhere and play music together.

    Forced grouping through higher difficulty that can't be done solo is just zealot thinking: "you must do it the way I like it or GTFO." It's dumb shit man.
    don't try talking your way out of it.


    These games (if you can even call them a game) are a joke.  Don't use back in the day an excuse to play word games I don't play them.
    I'm not backing away from a fucking thing dude. But you've never played a game where people grouped just because it was fun to group have you?

    Forcing grouping through difficulty is just another one of your dumbass ideas. You might build a community of Deletes but that's about it. Have fun with your 2 other buddies in your community lol.

    Your ideas are always about making people do what you want them to do, not what they want. Forcing people to have fun against their will... you don't see the problem?
    DeadSpock
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,365
    It's not "difficulty", it's how it's done. 
    You cannot have true difficulty if the content never changes. 
    Randomness and adjustments combined, these are the means to "difficulty" that works for game play. Otherwise, players can figure out the defined means to always winning. It'll be on some cheat site. 
    Thank you for being rational even if you disagree :)


    Your point is part of the 3 reasons In my OP..... Seems laziness on developer part.
    At least Triple A should make all the effort to give a quality game, balancing is part of the obligation. 


    We used to call games and puzzles a challenge.... But them again I'm getting older. 

    Thank you, really :)
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    Higher Difficulty Sucks in Open World Games. 

    Nothing, and I repeat Nothing, Sucks balls harder then needing to get a group together just to wander around a map.


    NarugKyleranGabriel-Knight
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,764
    edited March 27
    I rarely grouped in EQ and it was much tougher than modern games. I don’t consider that to be “forced grouping”, but I’m curious, how do you create a grouping experience that never needs to happen, but most people do because it’s just more “fun”?

    When me and my online friends tried neverwinter it took a couple minutes to realize that we woukdn’t need each other at all and we dropped the game like a rock. 
    Ungood said:

    Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as "rare"
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    I rarely grouped in EQ and it was much tougher than modern games. I don’t consider that to be “forced grouping”, but I’m curious, how do you create a grouping experience that never needs to happen, but most people do because it’s just more “fun”?

    When me and my online friends tried neverwinter it took a couple minutes to realize that we woukdn’t need each other at all and we dropped the game like a rock. 
    Allow me to introduce you to a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    90% of the game can be soloed, I wager at this point, maybe 95% of the game, given some raids can also be soloed.

    Groups allow you to harder difficulties, they gave you more hands in the chest to get rare drop loot, and they make the quest go faster and easier in most cases.

    Not needed, but adventegious. 
    delete5230
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,792
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    I'm guessing you have very limited MMORPG experience.

    Like for example... did you ever play LOTRO at release? In groups you had a special mechanic called Fellowship Maneuvers that was powerful and fun to use and there were even a couple of classes that could trigger them deliberately.

    Grouping was fun but there was plenty of room for soloers or role players that just wanted to hang out somewhere and play music together.

    Forced grouping through higher difficulty that can't be done solo is just zealot thinking: "you must do it the way I like it or GTFO." It's dumb shit man.
    Even in Lotro early days I would not say grouping was the norm, now it is so easy to solo you certainly don't need to in Lotro. I take you point on using anything but difficulty to get people to group, my preferred method is a downtime needed after doing so much "stuff". Something like taking part in group tavern activates. But I do think MMOs are better when you are grouping to do quests and so on, if difficulty it all they can come up with that's worth a try.

    What I would prefer is a separate system of advancement in "grouping". Much like you can (and should always) have separate rewards for PvE and PvP. In a sense a raid is part of such a system. You could have gear only for grouping with harder difficulties to match the fact you are doing a quest as a group. But that's a lot of development work, raising the overall difficulty is much easier to do. There is precedent in single player games, I don't see why it should not be tried.

    However, if you want to appeal to more than a minority I am not sure increased difficulty would get of the ground. Just like Dark Souls there could be room for such a MMO but it won't change the industry, ever easier solo and team will remain the direction of travel. When I say "team" I mean co-op/team games where funnily enough nobody says "why can't I play this game solo."?
    Palebane

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,764
    edited March 27
    Ungood said:
    I rarely grouped in EQ and it was much tougher than modern games. I don’t consider that to be “forced grouping”, but I’m curious, how do you create a grouping experience that never needs to happen, but most people do because it’s just more “fun”?

    When me and my online friends tried neverwinter it took a couple minutes to realize that we woukdn’t need each other at all and we dropped the game like a rock. 
    Allow me to introduce you to a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    90% of the game can be soloed, I wager at this point, maybe 95% of the game, given some raids can also be soloed.

    Groups allow you to harder difficulties, they gave you more hands in the chest to get rare drop loot, and they make the quest go faster and easier in most cases.

    Not needed, but adventegious. 
    Yeah but you’re going from mmorpg into MO-D&D which is perfectly fine and it’s a great game, but it’s not the same thing. Being able to choose your difficulty rather than overcome is not what I expect in my mmorpg.

    DDO, much like P&P, is something I can log into casually or get together with friends, but when I play an MMORPG it’s a completely different expectation. 
    Ungood said:

    Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as "rare"
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,313
    FFXI 1-75 was all a mmorpg could be,since those days all the mmorpg's have gone south.It is not about difficulty because FFXI end game still has difficulty,it is about gear scores,item levels that ruins mmorpg's.

    You MUST have that gear score or your can't play is such a stupid idea for design but makes it easier for devs to gate content,to CONTROL you as a player.So content becomes more about your gear than you and that is NOT a proper way to design a game.

    Sadly over time FFXI was losing players to other games including FFXIV so eventually the developer needed QOL to be added and imo rightfully so.The game is now a MUCH different game than during the vanilla 1-75 days.It is not so much in the difficulty but how it is played,you still benefit from the group but now you can make your own group out of npc's.
    I actually like it because collecting and using various npc's to your liking is sort of fun,yes it takes the grouping out of the game which is sad but after 16+ years you simply don't have enough new players to keep the original design in tact.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 4,113
    It's not "difficulty", it's how it's done. 
    You cannot have true difficulty if the content never changes. 
    Randomness and adjustments combined, these are the means to "difficulty" that works for game play. Otherwise, players can figure out the defined means to always winning. It'll be on some cheat site. 
    Thank you for being rational even if you disagree :)


    Your point is part of the 3 reasons In my OP..... Seems laziness on developer part.
    At least Triple A should make all the effort to give a quality game, balancing is part of the obligation. 


    We used to call games and puzzles a challenge.... But them again I'm getting older. 

    Thank you, really :)
    Yeah, well, nobody's seemed to pick up on the idea. 

    Let me ask you all, what makes your MMORPGs "more difficult?" 
    All you're really doing is bumping the content up to a higher Level, as in Level Grinds. 

    It's still predictable.
    It's still documented on "cheat sites." 
    It's still "connect the dots."
    Player characters are still nothing more than puppets on strings. 
    It's still "rinse and repeat." 
    It's still got all those nagging problems on the social end of it. 
    It's still a Gear Grind that goes from need to meaningless as you level. 
    It's still basically Multi-Player under controls of Grouping rules. 

    What would make a difference in your Themeparkish games is if you could lose your gear if you died. (GASP!!!) 

    I'm being a little unfair here in one way. 
    If you are playing more difficult content (higher leveled) to get the gear you need to beat that content, rather than getting that gear, spells, etc. that you need in previous levels. 
    You know, if THAT'S why it's more difficult. 
    But that would slow advancement down quite a bit, causing a lot more player deaths, and defeats you just don't see anymore, where you have to re-outfit and restock your character and try again, maybe another day. 
    I don't think most of you would want that. 
    KyleranPalebane

    Once upon a time....

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,032
    Scot said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Same old shit. Trying to force community through the shared pain of artificially required grouping. It's almost like some of you have only heard of the stick and know nothing about carrots.

    Grouping should happen because you've designed it to be more fun than not grouping. If you try to force people to do it you're already doing it wrong.
    Well gather up the entire zone and have at it...... All I ask is please don't call what ever your doing a game. 

    All I'm saying is it's a simple button that simply can be pressed.

    Same old shit my ass !
    I'm guessing you have very limited MMORPG experience.

    Like for example... did you ever play LOTRO at release? In groups you had a special mechanic called Fellowship Maneuvers that was powerful and fun to use and there were even a couple of classes that could trigger them deliberately.

    Grouping was fun but there was plenty of room for soloers or role players that just wanted to hang out somewhere and play music together.

    Forced grouping through higher difficulty that can't be done solo is just zealot thinking: "you must do it the way I like it or GTFO." It's dumb shit man.
    Even in Lotro early days I would not say grouping was the norm, now it is so easy to solo you certainly don't need to in Lotro. I take you point on using anything but difficulty to get people to group, my preferred method is a downtime needed after doing so much "stuff". Something like taking part in group tavern activates. But I do think MMOs are better when you are grouping to do quests and so on, if difficulty it all they can come up with that's worth a try.

    What I would prefer is a separate system of advancement in "grouping". Much like you can (and should always) have separate rewards for PvE and PvP. In a sense a raid is part of such a system. You could have gear only for grouping with harder difficulties to match the fact you are doing a quest as a group. But that's a lot of development work, raising the overall difficulty is much easier to do. There is precedent in single player games, I don't see why it should not be tried.

    However, if you want to appeal to more than a minority I am not sure increased difficulty would get of the ground. Just like Dark Souls there could be room for such a MMO but it won't change the industry, ever easier solo and team will remain the direction of travel. When I say "team" I mean co-op/team games where funnily enough nobody says "why can't I play this game solo."?
    My point wasn't that LOTRO was not easy enough to solo in the early days, it was that grouping gave you a fun mechanic that was not available solo, Fellowship Maneuvers.

    It's just an example of a grouping incentive not based on difficulty. Carrot instead of stick as it were.
    Scotmmolou
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,141
    edited March 27
    My Final point TURN UP THE DIFFICULTY  X10 and all these games became mmorpg's again (with community).
    Nope... As Scot said the whole industry goes the opposite direction, and for a reason: more money that way. Simply because of more people (I wouldn't even call them players) like that way.

    That's why I used to put into scaling threads the best solution: scaling in the players' hands. Option is king, let them set their difficult wherever they want.


    Sidenote, the "these games became mmorpg's again (with community)" part is wrong, twice actually. Easy MMORPGs are still MMORPGs, so they won't become one "again"... and if you artificially boost the difficulty, you can be dead sure you'll end up not with, but without community.

    Easy and hard can smoothly co-exist, just look at the aformentioned example LotRO, it's up to you whether you join to a SlowTro-like kinship for the extra difficulty (there's one now on most servers), or always do only grey missions and mobs for the over-easy lifestyle. Both are fine and valid way to enjoy your MMORPG.

    (personally I don't like easy, but until it doesn't affect me, I don't care. That's why I'm against forced scaling...)

    ed
    Iselin said:
    My point wasn't that LOTRO was not easy enough to solo in the early days, it was that grouping gave you a fun mechanic that was not available solo, Fellowship Maneuvers.
    It's a great and fun mechanic, still in the game just fairly obsolete now. I rarely see it in use, and usually just fires up on accidents.
    Really unfortunate, FM is an interesting and deep system, was a tremendous help with those early bosses and raids.
    mmolouPalebane
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    Ungood said:
    I rarely grouped in EQ and it was much tougher than modern games. I don’t consider that to be “forced grouping”, but I’m curious, how do you create a grouping experience that never needs to happen, but most people do because it’s just more “fun”?

    When me and my online friends tried neverwinter it took a couple minutes to realize that we woukdn’t need each other at all and we dropped the game like a rock. 
    Allow me to introduce you to a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    90% of the game can be soloed, I wager at this point, maybe 95% of the game, given some raids can also be soloed.

    Groups allow you to harder difficulties, they gave you more hands in the chest to get rare drop loot, and they make the quest go faster and easier in most cases.

    Not needed, but adventegious. 
    Yeah but you’re going from mmorpg into MO-D&D which is perfectly fine and it’s a great game, but it’s not the same thing. Being able to choose your difficulty rather than overcome is not what I expect in my mmorpg.

    DDO, much like P&P, is something I can log into casually or get together with friends, but when I play an MMORPG it’s a completely different expectation. 
    Have you played DDO?

    You can go as HCMF as you like in that game.. really.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    It's not "difficulty", it's how it's done. 
    You cannot have true difficulty if the content never changes. 
    Randomness and adjustments combined, these are the means to "difficulty" that works for game play. Otherwise, players can figure out the defined means to always winning. It'll be on some cheat site. 
    Thank you for being rational even if you disagree :)


    Your point is part of the 3 reasons In my OP..... Seems laziness on developer part.
    At least Triple A should make all the effort to give a quality game, balancing is part of the obligation. 


    We used to call games and puzzles a challenge.... But them again I'm getting older. 

    Thank you, really :)
    Yeah, well, nobody's seemed to pick up on the idea. 

    Let me ask you all, what makes your MMORPGs "more difficult?" 
    All you're really doing is bumping the content up to a higher Level, as in Level Grinds. 

    It's still predictable.
    It's still documented on "cheat sites." 
    It's still "connect the dots."
    Player characters are still nothing more than puppets on strings. 
    It's still "rinse and repeat." 
    It's still got all those nagging problems on the social end of it. 
    It's still a Gear Grind that goes from need to meaningless as you level. 
    It's still basically Multi-Player under controls of Grouping rules. 

    What would make a difference in your Themeparkish games is if you could lose your gear if you died. (GASP!!!) 

    I'm being a little unfair here in one way. 
    If you are playing more difficult content (higher leveled) to get the gear you need to beat that content, rather than getting that gear, spells, etc. that you need in previous levels. 
    You know, if THAT'S why it's more difficult. 
    But that would slow advancement down quite a bit, causing a lot more player deaths, and defeats you just don't see anymore, where you have to re-outfit and restock your character and try again, maybe another day. 
    I don't think most of you would want that. 
    DDO runs a Hard Core Leauge with Perma Death, where if you die, you lose your whole character, gear, levels, everything, regardless of what level you were.

    Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,460
    What do u mean by turning up the difficulty? Just literally making it so that grouping is required?


    I would also point out that grouping teaches us teamwork, grouping does not make a game more social.

    Social requires downtime.


    Finally, turning up the difficulty only helps make a game more enjoyable if the players have sufficient tools to overcome that difficulty. Simply adding more players won't change the experience for the better if the players are still using the same tools they already have.

    If you want to make grouping more enjoyable and more engaging, you need to get away from the modern shallow combat mechanics. Like someone said above, LotROs fellowship manuvers were a unique grouping mechanic that made it much more interesting, but fellowship manuvers were built on top of already great inter-class dependencies. My captain (buffer), for example, had about half of her skills restricted to group usage, so group content was the only place that it truly came alive and I could play the class to it's fullest.

    Once you've made group content more engaging than solo play, then you can start messing around with the difficulty. Just make sure you add plenty of downtime so that social bonds can form at the same time as learning teamwork.
    UngoodAmaranthar
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    What do u mean by turning up the difficulty? Just literally making it so that grouping is required?


    I would also point out that grouping teaches us teamwork, grouping does not make a game more social.

    Social requires downtime. 
    I think people need to read that again.

    Maybe a few hundred times, so it sinks in.
    Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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