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Treasure Maps, Keys, etc.

AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
edited March 17 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I've always thought that this sort of content, if done on the world wide scale, can be a casual but fun part of a game. 
Since I haven't played many MMORPGs, although I started out with UO's launch, so I've have been around quite a while, I wanted to see what has been done. And what gamers liked. 

UO had treasure maps that took you to a general area, and then you used a skill to search out the actual buried location. The as you dug, there were chances for MOB spawns. The bigger the treasure hoard was, the tougher the spawn. It was a fun system to play, plus there was a lot of trade involved for treasure maps. 

I haven't seen it myself, but I think a game with "keys" that drop as loot, and are marked for a location, acting similar to UO's Treasure Map system (above), usually in a Dungeon or Ruins, would be nice added content. 
In that sense, "keys" could come in a lot of forms. They wouldn't have to be actual lock keys. Think 'National Treasure' and the meerschaum pipe here. 

So, I'm curious about what I've missed, what with so many games that have been made over the years. What was well done, what might have been improved, etc. 

Edit...
I guess I should state that I'm not looking for the typical Dungeon run here, where you get keys dropped off MOBs in one room, and then use them there or the later rooms. Thinking more along the lines of new locations as an incentive to go places in the game world for rewards. 

Once upon a time....

AlBQuirkyAmathe

Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,931
    Elder scrolls online has chests around the landscape that you can unlock. Just need to use your own skill to pick the lock and of course lock picks. Sometimes in a hidden place and sometimes a camp.

    That's the only game I know that has something like that. Lord of the Rings Online has little chests here and there but they are not locked and usually located in an enemy area.

    I'd actually prefer treasure maps that didn't use a skill and the players would just have to solve clues, look at the landscape, etc.
    AmarantharAlBQuirky



  • WaanWaan Member UncommonPosts: 102
    I can't remember precisely, but I think Rift had something similar at release. There were these sets of relics scattered around of which some required solving puzzles to collect. One piece would give clues to the next and so on (like finding the highest mountain in the area). Can't remember the rewards though.
    AlBQuirkykitaradCosmoguard
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    Sovrath said:
    Elder scrolls online has chests around the landscape that you can unlock. Just need to use your own skill to pick the lock and of course lock picks. Sometimes in a hidden place and sometimes a camp.

    That's the only game I know that has something like that. Lord of the Rings Online has little chests here and there but they are not locked and usually located in an enemy area.

    I'd actually prefer treasure maps that didn't use a skill and the players would just have to solve clues, look at the landscape, etc.
    I totally agree that there shouldn't be a skill involved. That gives players more to do and makes it more fun. 

    I think a game would benefit from having both keys to chests (and all sorts of vaults and rooms, etc.) and also locked chests to use a skill on. Add in keys found as loot for a chest in the same room. 
    Do it all, it's hardly any extra code and makes the game that much more fun, as opposed to the same things all the time. 


    Once upon a time....

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    edited March 17
    Waan said:
    I can't remember precisely, but I think Rift had something similar at release. There were these sets of relics scattered around of which some required solving puzzles to collect. One piece would give clues to the next and so on (like finding the highest mountain in the area). Can't remember the rewards though.

    I like that concept. 
    I don't know what they did, but I do like that general idea. 

    I always wanted a game where there are lost Relics that took a lot of detective work to find. 
    The ultimate challenge for the most powerful Relics. Clues that take a lot of exploration to discover, IF YOU'RE SMART ENOUGH." 
    I mean, about a dozen of these that, when someone gets one, it's a big deal. Really big deal. 

    On top of a lot of regular Relics that are much more common and moderately hard to achieve. 

    Once upon a time....

  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 416
    edited March 18
    Ideally, I think I would like seeing an MMO world where things and items are more unique.

    Even if a single player, or a handful of players, only get to have this or that item or thing, presumably, the range of "unique" items would satisfy this notion of having a precious unique item.

    I don't care for needing to own a +5 vorpal sword, and if everybody gets to have one, it seems rather cheap.

    Obviously, mico transaction based items would be a no no, but maybe aestheatic ones is ok. Still I think I would ideally want to see a system that rewards living in the world, and supporting this idea of 'immersion into the game world'.

    I also think that a simple way to create uniqueness, at least from a perception point of view (and not thinking server space and/or performance), is to have limited availability for aquiring things in the first place, then, if you take care of your stuff, you get to keep them until they are taken from you one way or another.

    I think a good alternative to chests, would be hidden storage spaces. Like beneath floor planks, buried treasures, hidden in water, in the dark, in hard-to-get places, etc.
    Post edited by Gamer54321 on
    AmarantharAlBQuirkyGdemami
  • NeblessNebless Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    Well 2 games that are still out have those features.

    - Age of Conan has the keys and you have to find the chest it goes to.  Off the top of my head I can think of 2; one in the beginner area and one in the Turan adventure pack area and I'm pretty sure there's a 3rd one, but can't think of it.  Granted I don't think there's a lot so no way could you call it any kind of focus in game, just a nice add on.

    - Pirates of the Burning Seas has Treasure Maps (well it would have to, don't you think? :) ).   You get as a drop a small scrap of map and have to figure out where in the game world it is,  go there, search, find the spot to dig and put up with any MOB's that spawn.  There's 7 to a dozen (can't remember) so a nice addition to the game content.
    AmarantharAlBQuirkyPo_gg

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • NeblessNebless Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    limited availability for acquiring things in the first place, 

    I think a good alternative to chests, would be hidden storage spaces. Like beneath floor planks, buried treasures, hidden in water, in the dark, in hard-to-get places, etc.

    That would be Dungeons & Dragons Online.  The limited availability or maybe accessibility would be a better word as they have hidden or locked doors and if you can't open or see them, you're out of luck.   And of course so it's not totally unfair to others, there are items you can use to get at them, just like those that could naturally do it.

    Buried treasures (with treasure maps to find them - but the real easy kind) - check, hidden in water - check and in hard to get places AND hidden in water - double check.
    AmarantharAlBQuirky

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,861
    I have to admit that I shuddered at first at the thread title including "keys." Most MMORPGs that used keys previously, used them to control leveled content, ala EQ 1 and their Planes of Power. I think that WoW may have done something similar, but not sure.

    However, I like your ideas about maps and keys. That could be another fun activity to occupy our time in an Online World :)
    Amaranthar

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,075
    edited March 18
    Nebless said:
    - Age of Conan has the keys and you have to find the chest it goes to.  ... one in the beginner area
    Yep, that key from Turach had so much promises, unfortunately the mechanic was seldom used later.
    (Amaranthar: it was a key, without any further indication, and later in WSI you could find a chest in a tent, also without indication, pointing arrows, etc. so only if you explored. And you could get the loot from it - unless by the time you got there you've already dropped the useless key from the inventory :) )

    TSW had a lot of similar missions, where you had to figure out the coordinations of hidden items or next clues. It was one of my favourite features of the game... but it also showed why is it a rare thing: a lot of players just used walkthroughs, custom maps with all the locations marked, etc.

    Building up a puzzle (especially a good one) takes time and effort. If a lot of your players just bypass it, it could easily be seen just as a waste of time...  and mind you, TSW was special in that case, had plenty of players who were into this kinda setting.
    I'm certain in more "regular" MMORPGs that "a lot" would rather be "almost all of your players".


    In the MUD days we had a similar issue, with an investigation mission. It was simply bypassed through a client script which the players openly passed around just to "quickly finish that annoying and boring long quest".
    Except in that era with only a day's work you could mix up the layout so much it took them weeks to build and prooftest a new MUD script :) 

    Not really possible today. You can fill your game with random spawn locations scattered all around the gameworld, but once they're all collected, datamined and mapped/modded into an easy walkthrough, it's a lot of work to add new ones. A lot of futile work, especially if the majority of the players don't care.


    LotRO nicely flipped this over. It too has a lot of exploration, unmarked chests to find, etc. and even puzzle solving treasure hunt quests (with quest markers and indicators for those kinda players - at least you can turn it off to make the quests more fun), but of course all the chest locations, the quest walkthroughs, etc. are on the web now.

    So, they've made a treasure hunt event, which is basically a randomised minigame, with a bunch of set locations, and a set number of treasure chests (1 huge, a few large, some medium and a lot of small chests), spawned randomly among those locations each round. It's a fun mayhem for a while, until you collect all the rewards.
    AlBQuirkykitarad
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,202
    I really enjoyed finding puzzles in GW2 and I always wish others did them as well. 
    AlBQuirky

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,683
    I like when there is a server or game wide effort to unlock new content. Gets people together.
    AmarantharAlBQuirkyCosmoguard

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    edited March 19
    Po_gg said:
    Nebless said:
    - Age of Conan has the keys and you have to find the chest it goes to.  ... one in the beginner area
    Yep, that key from Turach had so much promises, unfortunately the mechanic was seldom used later.
    (Amaranthar: it was a key, without any further indication, and later in WSI you could find a chest in a tent, also without indication, pointing arrows, etc. so only if you explored. And you could get the loot from it - unless by the time you got there you've already dropped the useless key from the inventory :) )

    TSW had a lot of similar missions, where you had to figure out the coordinations of hidden items or next clues. It was one of my favourite features of the game... but it also showed why is it a rare thing: a lot of players just used walkthroughs, custom maps with all the locations marked, etc.

    Building up a puzzle (especially a good one) takes time and effort. If a lot of your players just bypass it, it could easily be seen just as a waste of time...  and mind you, TSW was special in that case, had plenty of players who were into this kinda setting.
    I'm certain in more "regular" MMORPGs that "a lot" would rather be "almost all of your players".


    In the MUD days we had a similar issue, with an investigation mission. It was simply bypassed through a client script which the players openly passed around just to "quickly finish that annoying and boring long quest".
    Except in that era with only a day's work you could mix up the layout so much it took them weeks to build and prooftest a new MUD script :) 

    Not really possible today. You can fill your game with random spawn locations scattered all around the gameworld, but once they're all collected, datamined and mapped/modded into an easy walkthrough, it's a lot of work to add new ones. A lot of futile work, especially if the majority of the players don't care.


    LotRO nicely flipped this over. It too has a lot of exploration, unmarked chests to find, etc. and even puzzle solving treasure hunt quests (with quest markers and indicators for those kinda players - at least you can turn it off to make the quests more fun), but of course all the chest locations, the quest walkthroughs, etc. are on the web now.

    So, they've made a treasure hunt event, which is basically a randomised minigame, with a bunch of set locations, and a set number of treasure chests (1 huge, a few large, some medium and a lot of small chests), spawned randomly among those locations each round. It's a fun mayhem for a while, until you collect all the rewards.
    One of these days I might post about the greatest Artifact ever seen in MMORPGs, ever. 
    It was in UO, the story of which was buried deep in the Lore, revealed slowly though GM Events, and actually seen in game by me and a few others just one time. I grabbed a picture of it, and only then did I know the Official Name of the Artifact. 
    The few of us who knew of it had taken to calling it our own name. But the Official name fit exactly into what I had discovered was it's purpose. 

    It literally took me years, about 3, in RL research, to study this. It was an integral part of the running plot line. I knew it existed, but when I actually saw it in-game, after years of study, I knew what it was right away. The name of the Artifact proved what I had discovered through those long years of research. 

    The players who knew about it were all trying to loot it from a GM played Event Character by killing "him" at an Event and grabbing it off "his" corpse. 
    But that wasn't ever accomplished. 

    This was a remarkable story. The deepest, richest, most interesting thing you could imagine. 
    And most gamers playing UO never knew it existed. Or anything about it. 
    All they ever cared about was "phat lewts" and hack and slash. But if I had succeeded in gaining this Artifact, they all would have accused me of being in collusion with GMs and favoritism. LOL 

    YEARS of work. A truly remarkable story.
    Po_ggAlBQuirkykitarad

    Once upon a time....

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    Po_gg said:
    Nebless said:
    - Age of Conan has the keys and you have to find the chest it goes to.  ... one in the beginner area
    Yep, that key from Turach had so much promises, unfortunately the mechanic was seldom used later.
    (Amaranthar: it was a key, without any further indication, and later in WSI you could find a chest in a tent, also without indication, pointing arrows, etc. so only if you explored. And you could get the loot from it - unless by the time you got there you've already dropped the useless key from the inventory :) )

    TSW had a lot of similar missions, where you had to figure out the coordinations of hidden items or next clues. It was one of my favourite features of the game... but it also showed why is it a rare thing: a lot of players just used walkthroughs, custom maps with all the locations marked, etc.

    Building up a puzzle (especially a good one) takes time and effort. If a lot of your players just bypass it, it could easily be seen just as a waste of time...  and mind you, TSW was special in that case, had plenty of players who were into this kinda setting.
    I'm certain in more "regular" MMORPGs that "a lot" would rather be "almost all of your players".


    In the MUD days we had a similar issue, with an investigation mission. It was simply bypassed through a client script which the players openly passed around just to "quickly finish that annoying and boring long quest".
    Except in that era with only a day's work you could mix up the layout so much it took them weeks to build and prooftest a new MUD script :) 

    Not really possible today. You can fill your game with random spawn locations scattered all around the gameworld, but once they're all collected, datamined and mapped/modded into an easy walkthrough, it's a lot of work to add new ones. A lot of futile work, especially if the majority of the players don't care.


    LotRO nicely flipped this over. It too has a lot of exploration, unmarked chests to find, etc. and even puzzle solving treasure hunt quests (with quest markers and indicators for those kinda players - at least you can turn it off to make the quests more fun), but of course all the chest locations, the quest walkthroughs, etc. are on the web now.

    So, they've made a treasure hunt event, which is basically a randomised minigame, with a bunch of set locations, and a set number of treasure chests (1 huge, a few large, some medium and a lot of small chests), spawned randomly among those locations each round. It's a fun mayhem for a while, until you collect all the rewards.
    One of these days I might post about the greatest Artifact ever seen in MMORPGs, ever. 
    It was in UO, the story of which was buried deep in the Lore, revealed slowly though GM Events, and actually seen in game by me and a few others just one time. I grabbed a picture of it, and only then did I know the Official Name of the Artifact. 
    The few of us who knew of it had taken to calling it our own name. But the Official name fit exactly into what I had discovered was it's purpose. 

    It literally took me years, about 3, in RL research, to study this. It was an integral part of the running plot line. I knew it existed, but when I actually saw it in-game, after years of study, I knew what it was right away. The name of the Artifact proved what I had discovered through those long years of research. 

    The players who knew about it were all trying to loot it from a GM played Event Character by killing "him" at an Event and grabbing it off "his" corpse. 
    But that wasn't ever accomplished. 

    This was a remarkable story. The deepest, richest, most interesting thing you could imagine. 
    And most gamers playing UO never knew it existed. Or anything about it. 
    All they ever cared about was "phat lewts" and hack and slash. But if I had succeeded in gaining this Artifact, they all would have accused me of being in collusion with GMs and favoritism. LOL 

    YEARS of work. A truly remarkable story.
    I made this post here...
    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/487824/the-greatest-quest-artifact-to-ever-exist-in-mmorpgs#latest  


    Once upon a time....

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    Sovrath said:


    I'd actually prefer treasure maps that didn't use a skill and the players would just have to solve clues, look at the landscape, etc.
    Well ESO has those too!
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,645
    So you mean that you want something like the maps in Uncharted Waters Online?

    In UWO, a number of major cities have an archives that you can search through.  The archives can have a variety of maps to go discover something.  The discoveries can be anything from wild animals to remote places to gear that you can equip.

    The map generally tells you which zone you have to go to, though sometimes it is a little ambiguous.  Once there, you can use skills to tell you which direction you need to go within the zone.  You can then fight your way through the map to get to the right spot and make the discovery.

    There are nine different skills involved in making discoveries, and whichever two are used for a particular discovery get leveled by making the discovery.  This isn't like "only rogues can unlock chests" type of skills.  Any character of any class can have any skill.  And you can (and should) change your class often.  But it does mean that you can't start by making the handful of discoveries that give you some of the best gear in the game, but have to start with lower level discoveries instead.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    edited March 25
    Quizzical said:
    So you mean that you want something like the maps in Uncharted Waters Online?

    In UWO, a number of major cities have an archives that you can search through.  The archives can have a variety of maps to go discover something.  The discoveries can be anything from wild animals to remote places to gear that you can equip.

    The map generally tells you which zone you have to go to, though sometimes it is a little ambiguous.  Once there, you can use skills to tell you which direction you need to go within the zone.  You can then fight your way through the map to get to the right spot and make the discovery.

    There are nine different skills involved in making discoveries, and whichever two are used for a particular discovery get leveled by making the discovery.  This isn't like "only rogues can unlock chests" type of skills.  Any character of any class can have any skill.  And you can (and should) change your class often.  But it does mean that you can't start by making the handful of discoveries that give you some of the best gear in the game, but have to start with lower level discoveries instead.
    I'm not looking for anything in particular. I just wanted to see what's been done and was found to be entertaining enough to post about. Even as very casual game play, or deeper game play. And maybe some better ideas that we might come up with. 

    This one sounds pretty cool, but I may be putting my own imagination to it. 
    The first thing I thought of was "The Land That Time Forgot" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth." That sort of thing. 
    Major adventures. 
    And I do think that would be reeeally cool. 
    Imagine special places that are really hard to get to, due to some sort of maze like geography. And there are special things there to get. Like an abundance of semi-rare herbs, special tames, ancient items as collectables, or whatever other ideas. 

    Once upon a time....

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,645
    Quizzical said:
    So you mean that you want something like the maps in Uncharted Waters Online?

    In UWO, a number of major cities have an archives that you can search through.  The archives can have a variety of maps to go discover something.  The discoveries can be anything from wild animals to remote places to gear that you can equip.

    The map generally tells you which zone you have to go to, though sometimes it is a little ambiguous.  Once there, you can use skills to tell you which direction you need to go within the zone.  You can then fight your way through the map to get to the right spot and make the discovery.

    There are nine different skills involved in making discoveries, and whichever two are used for a particular discovery get leveled by making the discovery.  This isn't like "only rogues can unlock chests" type of skills.  Any character of any class can have any skill.  And you can (and should) change your class often.  But it does mean that you can't start by making the handful of discoveries that give you some of the best gear in the game, but have to start with lower level discoveries instead.
    I'm not looking for anything in particular. I just wanted to see what's been done and was found to be entertaining enough to post about. Even as very casual game play, or deeper game play. And maybe some better ideas that we might come up with. 

    This one sounds pretty cool, but I may be putting my own imagination to it. 
    The first thing I thought of was "The Land That Time Forgot" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth." That sort of thing. 
    Major adventures. 
    And I do think that would be reeeally cool. 
    Imagine special places that are really hard to get to, due to some sort of maze like geography. And there are special things there to get. Like an abundance of semi-rare herbs, special tames, ancient items as collectables, or whatever other ideas. 
    Uncharted Waters Online made exploration into a major game mechanic.  In most MMORPGs, to the extent that it has exploration at all, it's a minor side thing, and often one that gives no rewards.  In UWO, it's as important to the game as combat, and there's a ton of exploration content.

    UWO has over 2000 discoveries to make.  Some of them come from archive maps as I described above.  Others come from quests, which commonly involve finding and talking to several people who tell you where to go next before making the discovery at the end.  Either quests or maps can send you all over the world, and there are many zones that there isn't much reason to enter other than exploration.  The game also has dozens of zones that are unlocked only by having a particular quest to discover something there.  Once you unlock the zone, there is plenty more to do there.

    In order to make a discovery, you need to have two particular skills high enough.  Those skills can be leveled by using them (that is, by making other discoveries), but they can also be boosted by your gear.  There are many gear items in the game that provide buffs to your ability to make particular types of discovery, and gearing up for adventuring is arguably more complex than gearing up for combat.

    Some discoveries have long chains of prerequisites.  In order to discover the Ten Commandments, you need to have completed something like 200 other quests.  But a lot of the best gear in the game comes from exploration--and I don't just mean gear to help with exploring, though there is a lot of that, too.

    If you want to see an MMORPG that made exploration into a major game mechanic, and not just some minor side activity, then you have to try UWO.  Just be warned that it has a very steep learning curve, as it might be the most complicated game ever made.  If you've played any other Koei games, then you have some idea of what you're in for, though UWO makes things more complicated than most Koei games.  The game originally launched in 2005, and has had many years of updates since then, and without deprecating the old content, so there is easily enough to keep you busy for several years.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    So you mean that you want something like the maps in Uncharted Waters Online?

    In UWO, a number of major cities have an archives that you can search through.  The archives can have a variety of maps to go discover something.  The discoveries can be anything from wild animals to remote places to gear that you can equip.

    The map generally tells you which zone you have to go to, though sometimes it is a little ambiguous.  Once there, you can use skills to tell you which direction you need to go within the zone.  You can then fight your way through the map to get to the right spot and make the discovery.

    There are nine different skills involved in making discoveries, and whichever two are used for a particular discovery get leveled by making the discovery.  This isn't like "only rogues can unlock chests" type of skills.  Any character of any class can have any skill.  And you can (and should) change your class often.  But it does mean that you can't start by making the handful of discoveries that give you some of the best gear in the game, but have to start with lower level discoveries instead.
    I'm not looking for anything in particular. I just wanted to see what's been done and was found to be entertaining enough to post about. Even as very casual game play, or deeper game play. And maybe some better ideas that we might come up with. 

    This one sounds pretty cool, but I may be putting my own imagination to it. 
    The first thing I thought of was "The Land That Time Forgot" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth." That sort of thing. 
    Major adventures. 
    And I do think that would be reeeally cool. 
    Imagine special places that are really hard to get to, due to some sort of maze like geography. And there are special things there to get. Like an abundance of semi-rare herbs, special tames, ancient items as collectables, or whatever other ideas. 
    Uncharted Waters Online made exploration into a major game mechanic.  In most MMORPGs, to the extent that it has exploration at all, it's a minor side thing, and often one that gives no rewards.  In UWO, it's as important to the game as combat, and there's a ton of exploration content.

    UWO has over 2000 discoveries to make.  Some of them come from archive maps as I described above.  Others come from quests, which commonly involve finding and talking to several people who tell you where to go next before making the discovery at the end.  Either quests or maps can send you all over the world, and there are many zones that there isn't much reason to enter other than exploration.  The game also has dozens of zones that are unlocked only by having a particular quest to discover something there.  Once you unlock the zone, there is plenty more to do there.

    In order to make a discovery, you need to have two particular skills high enough.  Those skills can be leveled by using them (that is, by making other discoveries), but they can also be boosted by your gear.  There are many gear items in the game that provide buffs to your ability to make particular types of discovery, and gearing up for adventuring is arguably more complex than gearing up for combat.

    Some discoveries have long chains of prerequisites.  In order to discover the Ten Commandments, you need to have completed something like 200 other quests.  But a lot of the best gear in the game comes from exploration--and I don't just mean gear to help with exploring, though there is a lot of that, too.

    If you want to see an MMORPG that made exploration into a major game mechanic, and not just some minor side activity, then you have to try UWO.  Just be warned that it has a very steep learning curve, as it might be the most complicated game ever made.  If you've played any other Koei games, then you have some idea of what you're in for, though UWO makes things more complicated than most Koei games.  The game originally launched in 2005, and has had many years of updates since then, and without deprecating the old content, so there is easily enough to keep you busy for several years.
    I was very interested in UWO, until they decided to go FTP. 
    And from what I've read, it's expensive to get reasonable game play through the CS. 

    They should have gone with a sub. I could live with a CS for art, such as sails and whatnot. But definitely not for storage, XP, etc. 

    One of the biggest things about a CS is that, as a game slows down, as they all do, there's a tremendous pressure on the Devs to up the need of the CS sales. That seems to have happened to UWO, just as with most other FTP games. 

    What you describe sounds fantastic, though. 
    My ideal game would have something (at least very similar) that has Horizontal reward involved, plus knowledge, which can be as big as any Vertical progression system as far as gain and importance. IMO, anyways. 

    And add the concept of learning new skills through in-world discoveries, and I think it's the foundation of a truly great game. (It does sound like they have that in UWO, I think that should be a big part of game play.) 

    Once upon a time....

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,645
    Quizzical said:
    Uncharted Waters Online made exploration into a major game mechanic.  In most MMORPGs, to the extent that it has exploration at all, it's a minor side thing, and often one that gives no rewards.  In UWO, it's as important to the game as combat, and there's a ton of exploration content.

    UWO has over 2000 discoveries to make.  Some of them come from archive maps as I described above.  Others come from quests, which commonly involve finding and talking to several people who tell you where to go next before making the discovery at the end.  Either quests or maps can send you all over the world, and there are many zones that there isn't much reason to enter other than exploration.  The game also has dozens of zones that are unlocked only by having a particular quest to discover something there.  Once you unlock the zone, there is plenty more to do there.

    In order to make a discovery, you need to have two particular skills high enough.  Those skills can be leveled by using them (that is, by making other discoveries), but they can also be boosted by your gear.  There are many gear items in the game that provide buffs to your ability to make particular types of discovery, and gearing up for adventuring is arguably more complex than gearing up for combat.

    Some discoveries have long chains of prerequisites.  In order to discover the Ten Commandments, you need to have completed something like 200 other quests.  But a lot of the best gear in the game comes from exploration--and I don't just mean gear to help with exploring, though there is a lot of that, too.

    If you want to see an MMORPG that made exploration into a major game mechanic, and not just some minor side activity, then you have to try UWO.  Just be warned that it has a very steep learning curve, as it might be the most complicated game ever made.  If you've played any other Koei games, then you have some idea of what you're in for, though UWO makes things more complicated than most Koei games.  The game originally launched in 2005, and has had many years of updates since then, and without deprecating the old content, so there is easily enough to keep you busy for several years.
    I was very interested in UWO, until they decided to go FTP. 
    And from what I've read, it's expensive to get reasonable game play through the CS. 

    They should have gone with a sub. I could live with a CS for art, such as sails and whatnot. But definitely not for storage, XP, etc. 

    One of the biggest things about a CS is that, as a game slows down, as they all do, there's a tremendous pressure on the Devs to up the need of the CS sales. That seems to have happened to UWO, just as with most other FTP games. 

    What you describe sounds fantastic, though. 
    My ideal game would have something (at least very similar) that has Horizontal reward involved, plus knowledge, which can be as big as any Vertical progression system as far as gain and importance. IMO, anyways. 

    And add the concept of learning new skills through in-world discoveries, and I think it's the foundation of a truly great game. (It does sound like they have that in UWO, I think that should be a big part of game play.) 
    Don't be scared off by UWO's cash shop.  When I played, it looked to me like the publisher (then Netmarble) was actively trying to make the game flagrantly pay to win.  And they were mostly failing at it.  The structure of the game itself is remarkably resilient against pay to win.

    If you want to be a pirate, then yes, it's very pay to win.  Only whales can be effective pirates, which means that there aren't very many pirates to worry about.  That makes it so that about half of the world allowing non-consensual PVP where one player can loot another doesn't wreck the game for the non-pirates.

    And incidentally, you shouldn't worry that pirates will wreck the game for you, either.  It's nearly impossible to catch a player who is watching for pirates and actively trying not to be caught.  Pirates largely target bots or people who are AFK or otherwise not paying attention.  Or sometimes they do target players who are trying not to be caught, but they don't catch them.

    In most games, if you could buy some cash shop item to give you +50% damage, that would be hugely unbalancing, and flagrantly pay to win.  In UWO, it would basically merit a shrug, as it would hardly ever change the outcome of a battle.  Nearly all combat is either players farming NPCs (in which case, you pick opponents you can beat) or else one side attacking while the other side tries to flee.  The latter is all about acceleration and positioning, and damage scarcely matters.  (If you see improved sails for sale, those are top speed, not acceleration, and irrelevant to combat.)

    I played UWO for maybe two or three years.  I spent $20 on the game in that time.  Ship upgrade permits are immensely useful.  Everything else, you can do without, unless you want to be a pirate.
    Amaranthar
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,809
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    Uncharted Waters Online made exploration into a major game mechanic.  In most MMORPGs, to the extent that it has exploration at all, it's a minor side thing, and often one that gives no rewards.  In UWO, it's as important to the game as combat, and there's a ton of exploration content.

    UWO has over 2000 discoveries to make.  Some of them come from archive maps as I described above.  Others come from quests, which commonly involve finding and talking to several people who tell you where to go next before making the discovery at the end.  Either quests or maps can send you all over the world, and there are many zones that there isn't much reason to enter other than exploration.  The game also has dozens of zones that are unlocked only by having a particular quest to discover something there.  Once you unlock the zone, there is plenty more to do there.

    In order to make a discovery, you need to have two particular skills high enough.  Those skills can be leveled by using them (that is, by making other discoveries), but they can also be boosted by your gear.  There are many gear items in the game that provide buffs to your ability to make particular types of discovery, and gearing up for adventuring is arguably more complex than gearing up for combat.

    Some discoveries have long chains of prerequisites.  In order to discover the Ten Commandments, you need to have completed something like 200 other quests.  But a lot of the best gear in the game comes from exploration--and I don't just mean gear to help with exploring, though there is a lot of that, too.

    If you want to see an MMORPG that made exploration into a major game mechanic, and not just some minor side activity, then you have to try UWO.  Just be warned that it has a very steep learning curve, as it might be the most complicated game ever made.  If you've played any other Koei games, then you have some idea of what you're in for, though UWO makes things more complicated than most Koei games.  The game originally launched in 2005, and has had many years of updates since then, and without deprecating the old content, so there is easily enough to keep you busy for several years.
    I was very interested in UWO, until they decided to go FTP. 
    And from what I've read, it's expensive to get reasonable game play through the CS. 

    They should have gone with a sub. I could live with a CS for art, such as sails and whatnot. But definitely not for storage, XP, etc. 

    One of the biggest things about a CS is that, as a game slows down, as they all do, there's a tremendous pressure on the Devs to up the need of the CS sales. That seems to have happened to UWO, just as with most other FTP games. 

    What you describe sounds fantastic, though. 
    My ideal game would have something (at least very similar) that has Horizontal reward involved, plus knowledge, which can be as big as any Vertical progression system as far as gain and importance. IMO, anyways. 

    And add the concept of learning new skills through in-world discoveries, and I think it's the foundation of a truly great game. (It does sound like they have that in UWO, I think that should be a big part of game play.) 
    Don't be scared off by UWO's cash shop.  When I played, it looked to me like the publisher (then Netmarble) was actively trying to make the game flagrantly pay to win.  And they were mostly failing at it.  The structure of the game itself is remarkably resilient against pay to win.

    If you want to be a pirate, then yes, it's very pay to win.  Only whales can be effective pirates, which means that there aren't very many pirates to worry about.  That makes it so that about half of the world allowing non-consensual PVP where one player can loot another doesn't wreck the game for the non-pirates.

    And incidentally, you shouldn't worry that pirates will wreck the game for you, either.  It's nearly impossible to catch a player who is watching for pirates and actively trying not to be caught.  Pirates largely target bots or people who are AFK or otherwise not paying attention.  Or sometimes they do target players who are trying not to be caught, but they don't catch them.

    In most games, if you could buy some cash shop item to give you +50% damage, that would be hugely unbalancing, and flagrantly pay to win.  In UWO, it would basically merit a shrug, as it would hardly ever change the outcome of a battle.  Nearly all combat is either players farming NPCs (in which case, you pick opponents you can beat) or else one side attacking while the other side tries to flee.  The latter is all about acceleration and positioning, and damage scarcely matters.  (If you see improved sails for sale, those are top speed, not acceleration, and irrelevant to combat.)

    I played UWO for maybe two or three years.  I spent $20 on the game in that time.  Ship upgrade permits are immensely useful.  Everything else, you can do without, unless you want to be a pirate.
    For the foreseeable future (this year) I can't get involved in a game. But I may try it out at some point. You are making a good argument and the game has always seemed interesting to me. 
    I do love PvWorld(?) stuff like we're talking about here. 

    Once upon a time....

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 509
    edited April 1
    Legends of Aria is almost exactly like UO. Here's hte wiki entry for treasure hunting:

    Wild Terra Online is similar. It also has treasure hunting:

    I haven't tried etiher however. And they're both relatively small indie efforts. Wild TErra 2 is being worked on.

    Archeage Unchained has some sort of treasure hunting:


  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,088
    Sovrath said:
    Elder scrolls online has chests around the landscape that you can unlock. Just need to use your own skill to pick the lock and of course lock picks. Sometimes in a hidden place and sometimes a camp.

    That's the only game I know that has something like that. Lord of the Rings Online has little chests here and there but they are not locked and usually located in an enemy area.

    I'd actually prefer treasure maps that didn't use a skill and the players would just have to solve clues, look at the landscape, etc.
    You mean like the treasure maps in ESO you forgot about?


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

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